Author Topic: Resistance In Consumerist Society (Read 8646 times)

Holden · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2014, 11:13:09 am »

I am not a misogynist, but I must speak about the elephant in the room when we are talking about consumerism.There maybe exceptions,but they only prove the rule,here is what most women are like-(by Tolstoy,who was no one's fool)-

“What do you mean by the power of women?” I said. “Everybody, on the contrary, complains that women have not sufficient rights, that they are in subjection.”
“That’s it; that’s it exactly,” said he, vivaciously. “That is just what I mean, and that is the explanation of this extraordinary phenomenon.
“But where do you see this exceptional power?”
“Where? Why, everywhere, in everything. Go see the stores in the large cities. There are millions there, millions. It is impossible to estimate the enormous quantity of labor that is expended there. In nine-tenths of these stores is there anything whatever for the use of men? All the luxury of life is demanded and sustained by woman. Count the factories; the greater part of them are engaged in making feminine ornaments. Millions of men, generations of slaves, die toiling like convicts simply to satisfy the whims of our companions.
“Women, like queens, keep nine-tenths of the human race as prisoners of war, or as prisoners at hard labor. They take revenge for our sensuality; they catch us in their nets.
“Yes, the whole thing is there. Women have made of themselves such a weapon to act upon the senses that a young man, and even an old man, cannot remain tranquil in their presence. Watch a popular festival, or our receptions or ball-rooms. Woman well knows her influence there. You will see it in her triumphant smiles.
“As soon as a young man advances toward a woman, directly he falls under the influence of this opium, and loses his head. Long ago I felt ill at ease when I saw a woman too well adorned — whether a woman of the people with her red neckerchief and her looped skirt, or a woman of our own society in her ball-room dress. But now it simply terrifies me. I see in it a danger to men, something contrary to the laws; and I feel a desire to call a policeman, to appeal for defence from some quarter, to demand that this dangerous object be removed.
“And this is not a joke, by any means. I am convinced, I am sure, that the time will come — and perhaps it is not far distant — when the world will understand this, and will be astonished that a society could exist in which actions as harmful as those which appeal to sensuality by adorning the body as our companions do were allowed. As well set traps along our public streets, or worse than that.

Holden · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2014, 02:00:05 pm »

http://youtu.be/O_JEi0HP6xc

Holden · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2014, 02:36:19 am »

"Why do men fight for their servitude as stubbornly as though it were their salvation?"That is, how is it possible that people cry for "More taxes! Less bread!"

The modern nuclear family is a great evil.

Crazy Squirrel · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2014, 03:44:25 am »

*Sigh*...don't you know what they say about starting a sentence with,"I am not a misogynist, but..."?

Holden · « **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2014, 10:42:09 am »

Hello CS,if you mean this"Any sentence that starts with the words "I'm not prejudiced, but...," or similar formations ("I'm not racist, but..." or "I'm not homophobic," "not sexist," etc.) is likely to contradict itself very rapidly. The technical term for this type of statement is false front, but the colloquial but-head is often used, with or without irony. Saying a sentence that starts with "I'm not X, but..." likely means that you are X.
These words are often spoken in the mistaken belief that simply saying "I'm not prejudiced" is enough to exempt the speaker from responsibility for the offensive comment they are about to make. "
then I am well aware of it.

But sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar you see,I meant exactly what I said-I am not a misogynist,maybe I should have qualified that post by mentioning that in my personal experience all the women I have ever known have been bridezillas,though in theory, I do accept that there maybe exceptions ,you maybe one of the exceptions .In one of your posts your said that you have given up using the make up kit,I admire that,only I have not met any woman in person who's done such a thing.Now I am not absolving men at all,often they spend as much on their shiny worthless gadgets as the women,part of the reason why women doll up is because men expect them to,you rightly mentioned that earlier,so I do sympathise with the women,after a fashion .In the end, we are in a mixed up,muddled up,shook up world,stuck in a vicious circle,the only solution appears to be anti-natalism.

Anyway,judging by the fact that both of us revolve in the same orbit as Mr H means we must be similar as regards the worldview,I do apologise unreservedly if the post offended you in anyway.If I may say so,you posts so far here have been most enlightening.

Holden · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2014, 11:08:52 am »

Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky sit together in the Winter Palace in the aftermath of Red October, flush with the shock and optimism of their sudden triumph. As they converse, a comrade enters the room to tell them the state police records are on their way. They arrive, a pile of papers documenting the informants of the state. As they page through the stack, their faces darken. They are each astonished by the number of their comrades who were secret informants of the government. Quislings, traitors, and turncoats among their inner circle. They gaze at each other in disbelief. The room quiets. The mirthful mood of the day vanishes beneath the bleak recognition that their solidarity was naïve. Then Lenin leans back in his chair and smiles. Stalin and Trotsky frown at him—nothing is funny about deceit. But Lenin brightens and says, “Don’t you see? It doesn’t matter that the government had infiltrated our ranks. When the tide of history is upon you, resistance is futile.”

Crazy Squirrel · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2014, 08:30:33 pm »

It's not a case of if you offended me, it's how much you offended me...at any rate, I hesitate to start this conversation with you, because I've gone down this same tiresome road countless times before, where a guy posts some hateful, sexist ****, and then tries to tell me he's not a misogynist. In the end, I always end up wasting my time because the guy always refuses to admit any wrongdoing, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

So, because I'm sick to death of peoples' ****, and I can't be bothered to go into yet another pointless battle with some random dude on the internet, let me put this in the simplest terms: If you believe the hateful words you posted (and it's clear to me that you do), then yes, you are a misogynist. Yes. That is the truth of the matter, and I do not accept your seriously flawed justifications for posting such bullShit. A man who honestly isn't a misogynist would never post such words, to begin with!

I find it very sad, disheartening, and depressing that such unbridled hate toward women runs rampant even among men who are supposedly 'free thinkers'. The human race is a truly pathetic species.

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2014, 11:29:00 am »

First of all, without getting into a boy/girl debate over which sex is fundamentally most responsible for the current psychological enslavement of the species, I want to agree with the final statement, The human race is a truly pathetic species. I am responding in two posts simultaneously because I want to stay focused, and not just puke up everything in one rant. Yes, our species is pathetic ... a very good point and something we ought not forget for one moment lest we lose our wonderful senses of humor.

Ridiculous is the term I use - in the same family as pathetic, I guess. That's why, in the other thread, I am trying to gel together horror and comedy. The combination is not tragedy ... The combination of horror and comedy is pathos ... that's what I think.

pathos - the quality or power in an actual life experience or in literature, music, speech, or other forms of expression, of evoking a feeling of pity or compassion.

And so as not to be misunderstood, I will explain up front that I am not just talking about "the other members" of this species, the people out there on the highways, the state slaves marching and taking orders, following their chain of command, but my very own being itself. Free-thinker or not ... humble computer geek philosopher or arrogant rich industrialist, we are both pathetic. I refuse to be enslaved in the coffee factory, but, Holy Hot Dog!, when I wake up from sleep (and even throughout the day as long as I'm not guzzling cold beer), I sure do go for that black medicine. I would rather be shot in the head than pick tobacco on a plantation all the hours of all my days, but ... you got tobacco?

So, when we say the human race is a pathetic species, we are talking about ourselves. Let's be clear about this. We are all pathetic and ridiculous ... more or less.

And so, rather than engineering faster and smaller computers and gadgets only geeks understand but the gorts devour as fast as the geeks can pump them out, why not do as Hermann Hesse's Steppenwolf, Harry Haller, suggests, and make an end at last of the fat and well dressed and perfumed plutocrats who used the machines to squeeze the fat from other men's bodies, of them and their fiendishly purring automobiles.

Set factories afire at last!

Make a little room on the crippled earth!

Depopulate it so the grass may grow again, and woods, meadows, heather, stream and moor return to this world of dust and concrete.

The principal thing is clear. There is a war on, a violent, genuine and highly sympathetic war where there is no longer any concern for Republic or President, for frontiers, flags, or colors and other equally decorative and theatrical matters, all nonsense at bottom; but a war in which every one who lacked air to breathe and no longer found life exactly pleasing is giving empathetic expression to his/her displeasure and is striving to prepare the way for a general destruction of this iron-cast civilization of ours.

In every eyes I see the unconcealed spark of destruction and murder, and in mine too these wild red roses are blooming as rank and high, and sparkled as brightly. I join the battle joyfully.

In the other thread I will try to explain that, with or without civilization, there most likely has never been and never will be a "good time" to be born human. In this, we all share a common Fate ... It's a bummer to be human, and no amount of merchandise or technological wizardry is going to alter that. So, in such a situation, being content with less and discouraging creating fodder for The Machine seems all one could do to RESIST.

Watching TV

Later I will correct my typos and grammatical errors.

~ just another pathetic unix geek who is sometimes a nervous wreck

Crazy Squirrel · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2014, 05:20:58 pm »

Mike, your last post was quite unnecessary...I clearly stated that I'm not interested in getting into a debate. I'm tired, and my time is much too valuable to waste it on someone who will only refuse to acknowledge his Shitty behavior. I simply stated the truth, and I don't give a **** if someone doesn't like it. As you (or someone you quoted) once said,"the truth is often unpleasant". Also, the truth is not open for debate.

...and yes, humanity is truly pathetic, especially when some its brightest thinkers still harbor irrational hatred toward half of the species, and that any attempts to bring that to light only results in them desperately trying to squash it. Apparently, even the 'truth seekers' aren't willing to deal with some truths.

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2014, 06:06:00 pm »

Necessary or not, I like to bring some balance to the table, and sense that some bullying might be about to happen here.

So, let me mention a couple of new perspectives on these non-debatable truths.

David Benetar, author of Better Never To Have Been, has authored The Second Sexism, and Helen Smith wrote a book on why men should boycott marriage: Men On Strike

It's all not so cut and dry. When it comes to resisting consumerist culture, the first step might be to reject marriage and even dating. Why? Well ... as Holden pointed out, some women - not all - don't do much serious thinking and actually promote selling oneself into slavery.

Maybe it is best we get this out on the table.

Misanthropic ... misogynistic ... as tired as you might be of senseless arguments, I have grown tired of being bullied by the use of such terms to silence opinions that offend "half the species". Being labeled misogynistic is as bad as being labeled anti-Semitic ... as if an individual is supposed to repress his or her true feeling just because they are viewed as incorrect.

All I am saying is, now that Holden has expressed these sentiments by quoting some neurotic Russian author, maybe it's worth exploring - as it relates to resisting consumerism and the gort lifestyle.

You know, come to think of it, Schopenhauer has been accused of being the poster child of misogyny, but if one looks more closely at his criticisms, one sees that he is speaking out against the high society women, and that he displays compassion towards the women who are forced to serve them.

Who knows?

What about when one becomes drunk and expresses sentiments that are totally contrary to what they perceive as their persona? Never forget that we have been schooled to say what people want to hear.

Do you want us to tell you what you want to hear or do you want to know how we really feel?

Crazy Squirrel · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2014, 06:47:47 pm »

...that's seriously what you think? You think I'm 'bullying' Holden? Wow. You've GOT to be kidding me. Well, I guess you feel he needs your protection, since it's obvious the poor thing can't stand up for himself with those incredibly weak arguments he gave me for posting that ****.

You think your 'new perspectives' are actually new to me? Ha! In fact, I agree that dating and marriage is often a bad deal for BOTH sexes. You don't have to tell me that most PEOPLE (both men and women, to make sure this is clear enough for you) don't ever engage in any serious thought. In fact, it's starting to look like you're not interested in engaging in any serious thought about this matter, since you're trying so damn hard to shut me up.

So I'm not allowed to get offended when someone posts blatantly hateful words about my gender? Would you say the same if Holden had posted hateful things about blacks? I highly doubt it, especially since they're your 'chosen people'! You'd have him banned, in a heartbeat! Why does everyone think it's still perfectly acceptable to hate women?

Well, since you think that the **** Holden posted is all fine and dandy, I'm certainly not going to stick around. Nice to know that you've always secretly hated me. Some 'free thinker' you are.

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2014, 08:55:36 pm »

I see. Well, I will tweak the system to allow guests to post in case you want to object to anything else our free thinking might lead us to write.

Of course, if we get hit with spam, you know, advertisements for **** medication or links to pornography, I'll have to switch it back to prevent guests from posting.

I don't hate you Crazy Squirrel. I've been punched in the face by some people, and while I don't like them in the least after such physical abuse, I don't really hate them. I kind of like you, actually ... but you have every right to deprive us of your presence if you feel the reference to Tolstoy's works was offensive. We're bound to come up with stuff that is even more offensive than that. No thought control.

chosen people? I only mentioned that the conditions of the inner cities are horrific ... even worse than the "Indian" reservations ...

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #27 on:** July 14, 2014, 11:47:47 pm »

OK Holden ... I will keep sharing the gems I have gathered from other renegades. I was able to salvage a few. The next one flies in the face of those confused space monkeys who equate "unemployed" with "lazy" --- I can attest that some days I am busy, busy, busy from morning and into the night. Blaze was on point. I had traveled 3000 miles from my monkey zone, and I was very "homesick" --- fortunately I had a message board (it lasted from 2008 to the start of 2014), and there were a handful of people pulling me through difficult (homeless) days. The library was a very spiritual place for me then, and there were these people who were actually aware and concerned about my well-being on a day to day level. Even though they were not in my "monkey sphere" physically, they were more of a help to me than the monkeys in my daily routine.

November 2009

Quote from: Blaze

I want to add a comment about the "hard working" trait in the bullet list. There is often talk on here about people being proud of being lazy. But I think hard-working and lazy are relative concepts. I don't actually think that anyone here is that lazy. Many people on this forum spend a great deal of time researching things on the internet and writing about them. If they were being paid for these activities in an employment context they would be "researchers" and "writers". Others on this board have other hobbies and interests. Even if people do nothing at all, they are thinking deep thoughts. So when someone says "hard working" keep in mind that this may not be meant in the employment good-little-gort respect, but can also be interpreted as 'dedicated" and "passionate" to non-commercial interests. There are dedicated and passionate people in this forum, and to that extent they are "hard working" in their own personal endeavors if you ask me. We shouldn't blankly smear the term hard-working any more than we should praise the term lazy. Some lazy people are just dumb thoughtless ignorant assholes (and if they are geniuses, then they aren't lazy intellectually speaking).

_________________
Blame the state of the world on positive thinkers.

" How long would authority ... exist, if not for the willingness of the masses to become soldiers, policemen, jailers, and hangmen."

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2014, 12:30:34 pm »

Necessary? Unnecessary? Is anything really necessary? Before I continue populating this message board with some old ideas, I am compelled to make one thing clear ...

Quote from: Crazy Squirrel

You think I'm 'bullying' Holden? Wow. You've GOT to be kidding me. Well, I guess you feel he needs your protection, since it's obvious the poor thing can't stand up for himself with those incredibly weak arguments he gave me for posting that ****.

That **** is classic literature. This message board was inspired by a series of interesting emails going back and forth between Holden and I. This thread is about resisting consumerism, and that Tolstoy excerpt suggests that entire industries are promoted by certain types of women. To be fair, yes, there are entire industries promoted by certain types of men as well ... I think George Carlin listed them in one of his books, When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops? The gun/hunting culture, the automobile pick-up-truck culture, the sports culture, golfing, tennis, the macho gang culture, and yes, the drug/alcohol culture, and on and on ... So, yes, to be fair ... that might have been included. Well, we include them now. Too late I see. She has left the building.

Like George Carlin, Crazy Squirrel doesn't have pet peeves. She has major psychotic **** hatreds. I should have seen that coming. Very temperamental when it comes to hating on women. The ironic thing is that a gort is a gort is a gort, whether male or female. When a herd of consumers tramples a poor worker in some mega-store, both sexes are represented.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

"People are **** nuts. This country is full of nitwits and assholes. You ever notice that? Nitwits, assholes, fuckups, scumbags, jerkoffs, and dipShits. And they all vote. In fact, sometimes you get the impression that they’re the only ones who vote."

"Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it."

"Here’s all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid."

(George Carlin)

Back to the thread. We are pointing out ways to resist consumerism.

Yes, our species is pathetic ... a very good point and something we ought not forget for one moment lest we lose our wonderful senses of humor.

Hungry Hauser · « **Reply #29 on:** October 12, 2014, 05:39:00 pm »

Wow, did that thread get side-tracked or what? $:-\$

I have heard similar squabbles caused grief during the Beat and Natural Power Movements of the sixties and seventies. Today, I see myself sitting on the sidelines so as not to get accused of "man splainin'" ... Anyway, I am going to go through this thread again. Maybe it needs to be split into two different topics.

For starters, I will steer the thread into its origins with a song and the seed post.

Silverchair - Tomorrow

Quote from: I

An Introduction to the Thread

This topic was inspired by a flash of insight I experienced when Crazy Squirrel immediately understood my indifferent attitude concerning propaganda about some arbitrary Jersey Shore town "shaping up." This validation of my gut level feelings triggered a moment of clarity for me. I'll try to do some thinking about it while I am coherent.

First, back up a little.

Like this message board itself, this subject/topic is a tangent off of Number Six's "Boycott Amazon" post. I know the people shudder at the thought of boycotting Amazon.com since, well, they can get a printer cartridge for a fraction of what they would pay in the stores or directly from the retailer. Principles, principles, principles ... ethics, ethic, ethics ... solidarity ... what's solidarity?

OK. The subject is RESISTANCE in a consumerist society.

Under the video about working conditions at Amazon (and other such warehouses behind the scenes) there is one comment that hits the nail on the head: “Middle-class people who defend such labor practices are the Uncle Toms of the 21 century.”

That’s why, with Ignatius Reilly, I say, “Down with the middle class! The middle class must go!”

It’s just such a relief to cop such an attitude since the middle class is supposed to be the salt of the earth. Or … building up the reputation of a town by building high-priced luxury apartments for young urban professionals (yuppies) … Then people talking about how the town is really “shaping up.”

Crazy Squirrels two cents: "Ugh…when people speak of a neighborhood ‘shaping up’, I sigh heavily and roll my eyes. ‘Shaping up’ = ****ing boring, after all. Blech!"

It is amazing to me that you totally understood what I was getting at. Yes, “shaping up” = “boring” – I think that must be it.

“Shaping up” implies “you have to spend money in yuppie establishments in order to be ‘having fun’” – even though it is all make-believe fun!

“Shaping up” means “those freaks who have conversations by the trees in the park next to the library will be harassed by the hired guns of the corporate state”.

“Shaping up” = those of you who are unemployed will eventually be arrested on some trumped up “disorderly conduct” charge then coerced into an “outpatient treatment program” where brains will be bombarded with “positive thinking therapy groups” which will make you want to drink yourself to death. Heeheehee. Shaping up …

"Clean up your act …. shave the beard off, get the rotten teeth pulled, and wear dentures … Maybe blend in …"

UGH!

Here's a rhetorical question: Isn't the point moot if one boycotts with no money to spend in the first place?

$:-\$

{∅, {∅}, {∅, {∅}}} :: The Tip of the Big Mother Iceberg

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Author Topic: Resistance In Consumerist Society (Read 8646 times)

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