Author Topic: Negative Liberation  (Read 861 times)

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Gorticide :: Admin Elder Warrior

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Negative Liberation
« on: March 03, 2017, 09:20:30 pm »
I am going to start a collection of honest comments I find in my "travels" through cyberspace.

Here are some "negative" comments that I found liberating.  I was searching "pointless life" to see what I would fish up.

It makes you feel better doesn't it? When you're feeling bad, you tell yourself that life is meaningless and you won't have to waste energy caring, it makes you feel at peace.


Life is pointless... We all grow up to reproduce to create more ****s that will someday also die, it's an endless cycle. You are born, you go to school, you work, you reproduce, you get old, you die. It's like trying to reach a final goal, that's not even there. To be honest, humans are too smart for life. We all are just a slave to reproduction.


Life is nothing but bull****. **** the universe too.


Life itself is a natural disaster. Billions of futile life-forms suffering, whilst decaying, over billions of years. It disgusts me.



Depression Is Existence!


The size and nature of the universe is completely irrelevant. It's the very nature of EXISTENCE itself that makes everything pointless.


pointless

« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 09:00:43 am by Zero to the Zero Power »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

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Gorticide :: Admin Elder Warrior

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 11:43:51 pm »
When I get through a day where I feel as though I am living in a self-designed prison cell, where I am filled with doubts about having collected books in vain, thinking I will most likley never follow through and study a fraction of what I intend to, when I am just plain miserable and relieved that I do not have to interact with anyone so as not to expose my volitility and sensitivity ... when the night comes, the late night ... I almost feel better than "content".  It's as though one discovers a secret kind of relief upon rediscovering the pointlessness of all our strivings.

Am I alone in sensing this, that there is a hidden delight in just accepting our misery, when we just sink into this as being the true nature of our reality?

No wonder the more honest and sensitive among us have a bitter attitude towards the entertainment (and sports) industry with all their hype about the lives of the rich and famous ... and our bitterness towards all the gorts who perpetuate the lies about there being some kind of "good life".

Do you think it is possible that those who are in the processes of overcoming the will to live, losing interest in things in general, resigning themselves to just "get through life", not expecting to acheive any kind of lasting happiness, but simply avoiding danger and trying to be content with hiding in a room, may be concrete examples of the kind of terminology Schopenhauer was using?

I have been writing more to myself in the "command line diary" I put together using aliases in .bashrc.  I write technical notes to myself but also some philosophical outbursts.

I think of all those who must be miserable and I dream of a cure which would be as easy as simply being resigned to not feeling well.

It would be best to let it be known up front that you are not trying to be happy and that you find those who claim to be happy to be annoying.

I do experience some delightful little moments of discovery, but what I am suggesting is that the cure for depression (and chronic anger that gnaws at your insides) might be to find some relief in just getting used to just how difficult it can be to get through some days.

You see, we live in a world where people are trained not to complain because those who endure much without complaining are seen to be "strong".   Every creature has the burden of its own existence to deal with.  Suffering is everywhere.  It especially must be very prevailant within those who are constantly investing in acquiring the symbols of "success" ... for I imagine there is just no getting away from oneself, and one's self can't be that much different than the one I experience.

The more we know this inner life, the more we know all who breathe.

I could just as easily write these thoughts to myself ...

While I am rather caught up with technical and abstract ideas, there is still this animal creature who exists, and there is no denying the misery within me.  I'm just losing the desire to express these thoughts to anyone since I know others must go through similar periods of doubt, and still many more experience absolute horror.

I do not like to complain in public ... but to just try to cope with our reality ... being in the skin ... with this brain and thes bones ...

Take care of yourselves and don't mind me if I don't write here as often as I used to.

There is a good chance that I repress a lot and hold back.  I want to write how I really feel.  I want to write f-u-c-k and not fuuck.  I want to express how annoyed I become when I read the word "God".

There is something about a private diary that allows me to express myself more honestly with no other audience than this living animal in the flesh who is quite a contrarian.

There is a great emptiness within me.  I am very impressed with computing technology, and yet ... there is still this emptiness. 

None of the mathematics text books mention the great emptiness and pointlessness of all our strivings.



« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 12:10:12 am by ? »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 10:04:10 am »
Mr.H,
Thank you for your comments. This is your blog,Mr.H, and if you ever decide to shut the blog down, I will understand your decision. Once again I thank you for allowing me to write here. I must say that this blog is like a confessional box in a Catholic temple. Of course I am only a faceless reader and commenter from faraway Paraguay here. I think we all live in a self-designed prison cells. A country with an artificial name and borders is a prison cell. 

" It's as though one discovers a secret kind of relief upon rediscovering the pointlessness of all our strivings." Yes, it is both a relief and a burden at the same time. It is sad too specially when I see people filling their time with so many distractions until death comes.

"Am I alone in sensing this, that there is a hidden delight in just accepting our misery, when we just sink into this as being the true nature of our reality?"
No, you are not alone and most accept their miseries.

"Do you think it is possible that those who are in the processes of overcoming the will to live, losing interest in things in general, resigning themselves to just "get through life", not expecting to acheive any kind of lasting happiness, but simply avoiding danger and trying to be content with hiding in a room, may be concrete examples of the kind of terminology Schopenhauer was using?"

I ask myself if the will to live is so powerful in each human being, how can we resist this will? I get the impression everyday that this ability to resist is only for a few enlightened.

"I think of all those who must be miserable and I dream of a cure which would be as easy as simply being resigned to not feeling well."
That´s the problem,Mr.H, we wretched creatures do not want to feel resigned to not feeling well. As you say, there is no cure once you are on Earth.

"You see, we live in a world where people are trained not to complain because those who endure much without complaining are seen to be "strong".   Every creature has the burden of its own existence to deal with.  Suffering is everywhere.  It especially must be very prevailant within those who are constantly investing in acquiring the symbols of "success" ... for I imagine there is just no getting away from oneself, and one's self can't be that much different than the one I experience."

I often heard " boys don´t cry". Yes,they appear to be strong but as times passes the cracks start coming.

"None of the mathematics text books mention the great emptiness and pointlessness of all our strivings."
Great truth. The only I can add is that you have a talent for numbers and that is important.

"Take care of yourselves and don't mind me if I don't write here as often as I used to."
You have your own issues there in New Jersey and so it is understandable if you do not write often. Reading this blog has been very comforting.

Stay well and drive safely.


Holden

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 12:46:26 pm »
Am I alone in sensing this, that there is a hidden delight in just accepting our misery, when we just sink into this as being the true nature of our reality?-Herr Hentrich

Not if we are counting the ancient pagans.
The ancient pagans did not believe that the mass of mankind could be saved. Or, for that matter, that it was worth saving.

In the ancient European mystery religions and in non-western faiths, history is known to be without meaning,salvation is understood as liberation from time.

The conflicts that wrack our psyche today would not
 have surprised the pagans of classical antiquity. For them, no indissoluble chain bound knowledge, virtue and happiness together. In the plays of Euripides, knowledge cannot undo the workings of fate, virtue gives no protection against disaster.

Do you think it is possible that those who are in the processes of overcoming the will to live, losing interest in things in general, resigning themselves to just "get through life", not expecting to acheive any kind of lasting happiness, but simply avoiding danger and trying to be content with hiding in a room, may be concrete examples of the kind of terminology Schopenhauer was using?-Herr Hentrich


That history just unfolds, independently of a specified direction, of a goal, no one is willing to admit.- E. M. Cioran


The Greeks and the Romans believed that history was a series of cycles, the future was a rerun of the past . Medieval Europeans saw history differently, as a moral drama that concluded with the end of the world; but they never doubted that the conditions of earthly life would remain much as they had always been.

Thomas Malthus is commonly seen as a false prophet who failed to appreciate the power of human invention in defeating scarcity. In fact he uttered a forbidden truth . Like other animals, humans can overshoot the carrying capacity of their environment. When that happens, famine, plague or war will cull their numbers. At no time in history has this truth been more salient. The word Malthusian will be heard with increasing frequency in the years to come...

Darwin teaches that ‘humanity’ is only an abstract term signifying a shifting current of genes. Humans are an animal species much like any other – more inventive and destructive, no doubt , but like other animals in using their resources to survive and reproduce. Contemporary Darwinians are adamant that Darwin’s discovery leaves the future in human hands. Other species may be ruled by natural selection, but we are not. What humanity does with scientific knowledge is ‘up to us'.
 If Darwinism is true, this must be false. ‘We’ are few, feeble animals like the rest.

Schopenhauer would have approved of your life style.Not only are you on the right track ,you have been kind enough to help me a great deal too.
Write as rarely or as often as you like.You will find me here always.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 01:12:24 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

forthebirds

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 04:27:01 pm »
There is a good chance that I repress a lot and hold back.  I want to write how I really feel.

It is very obvious and you have already admitted that in a previous post that was directed at me.

I want to express how annoyed I become when I read the word "God".

With that said, it appears that I am overstaying my welcome, as many of my most recent posts have contained the word "God," and this seems to upset you in some way. In all these years we've chatted, your disagreement with my beliefs has never bothered me, and they still don't. But I think there may be some kind of friction that you are developing, as you continue to repress these emotions. It might be best if I stepped away from this site to help you feel free to express yourself, because I will not hold thoughts and use of a word, that best symbolizes the biggest idea about my philosophy, back, just because it bothers you. This would take away from my ability to clearly communicate thought, likely similar to what you are putting yourself through now. I am not angry with you. I wish you well, H.

Holden, if I do not see you around much anymore, it has been a great ride. Thank you very much for your words. I am truly grateful for the exchange of ideas that we have had.

Gorticide :: Admin Elder Warrior

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 06:02:22 pm »
Quote from: Holden
Schopenhauer would have approved of your life style.Not only are you on the right track ,you have been kind enough to help me a great deal too.

Imagining Schopenhauer approving of my lifestyle makes me smirk, smile even.  It means more to me than the approval of my own deceased grandparents.

Over the years, "God" willin' n' the crick don't rise, I would like to be able to encourage and assist you in a lifelong study of your mathematics.  My decision to revisit high school mathematics may, in the long run, work in your favor, as I may become more and more enthusiastic about much of the material you might also be exploring in your own manner. 

There are various ways to approach those "core" subjects, some very formal, and others less traditional (using graphing software and computer algebra systems). 

There are several legs this table has to stand on.


Quote from: Raul
This is your blog,Mr.H, and if you ever decide to shut the blog down, I will understand your decision. Once again I thank you for allowing me to write here. I must say that this blog is like a confessional box in a Catholic temple.

I would not shut down this message board.  Remember the blog at wordpress?  I just lost interest and stopped posting there when I began communications with Holden here.

This message board was simply a way to keep our dialog organized as opposed to email which nowadays gets swamped with redundant coupons from booksellers and a bunch of other redundant shiit.

I am glad you refer to this as a temple.  I suppose it may seem contradictory to some that I am drawn to words such as temple and monastic while being repulsed by the word God.  Maybe this is why I have such respect for Buddhism and whatever culture it was spawned by (the ancient Hindus? I am not an expert).  Like Schopenhauer, I was so relieved to behold a religion which took no interest in the concept of a creator deity or so-called author or programmer of the universe.  It's main focus is the suffering entailed in existence for the creatures born into this.

So, I have no intention of deleting this board.  When I feel what is on my mind is just too petty and technical and self-absorbed, I may just lurk and read what others are writing about. 

Which leads to ...

Quote from: ForTheBirds
It might be best if I stepped away from this site to help you feel free to express yourself, because I will not hold thoughts and use of a word, that best symbolizes the biggest idea about my philosophy, back, just because it bothers you. This would take away from my ability to clearly communicate thought, likely similar to what you are putting yourself through now.

I was only pointing out that, while you claim that this word God best symbolizes the biggest idea about your philosophy and that not using the word would take away your ability to clearly communicate thought, I insist that your use of the word God can only lead to ambiguity and hamper your ability to communicate clearly.

Holden very politely mentions that the word Will is a much clearer description of our lived reality and the nature of our predicament, the nature of all that is, from the subjective perspective of each living entity.  While I am in no position to limit what words you choose to use or not, I am emphasizing that using such a word as God, no matter whether you mean "Nothingness", "Void", "The Universe", "The World", "The Devil", "Orgasm", "Love", "Hate", whatever ... the word God is not at all CLEAR.  It in no way helps you communicate your philosophy.

So, forthebirds, please, do not abandon Holden just so as not to upset me with your God talk.  We are both fairly calm and even-tempered.  Let us not hold back then.

This temple needs no God to make it a holy place.

You could write the word Blah-Blah-Bling in the place of the word God and it would carry the same meaning for me.  In other words, the word God does not really communicate anything whatsoever.  It's like "The Absolute" in philosophy, supposedly signifying some underlying source of all that is, and yet ... one certain pessimistic philosopher, Emile Cioran, used the word God often, but I think he used it tongue in cheek with some sarcasm and a touch of blasphemy.  What do I know?  I'm just me, just another manifestation of the Will to Live.


CIORAN:


I am displeased with everything. If they made me God, I would immediately resign.

I don’t understand how people can believe in God, even when I myself think of him everyday.


The more one is obsessed with God, the less one is innocent. Nobody bothered about him in paradise. The fall brought about this divine torture. It’s not possible to be conscious of divinity without guilt. Thus God is rarely to be found in an innocent soul.

This world was created from God's fear of solitude. In other words, us, the creatures, have no other meaning but to distract the Creator. Poor clowns of the absolute, we forget that we live dramas for the boredom of a spectator, whose claps have never reached the ears of a mortal.

Consciousness is nature's nightmare.


Music is everything. God himself is nothing more than an acoustic hallucination.


Sadness makes you God's prisoner.


The initial revelation of any monastery: everything is nothing. Thus begin all mysticisms. It is less than one step from nothing to God, for God is the positive expression of nothingness.



A harmonious being cannot believe in God.   Saints, criminals, and paupers have launched him, making him available to all unhappy people.

The poor maidservant who used to say that she only believed in God when she had a toothache puts all theologians to shame.

All that is Life in me urges me to give up God.



His power to adore is responsible for all his crimes: a man who loves a god unduly forces other men to love his god, eager to exterminate them if they refuse.

Even when he turns from religion, man remains subject to it; depleting himself to create false gods, he then feverishly adopts them; his need for fiction, for mythology triumphs over evidence and absurdity alike.

Without God, everything is nothingness; and with God? Supreme nothingness.


Creation is in fact a fault, man’s famous sin thereby appearing as a minor version of a much graver one. What are we guilty of, except of having followed, more or less slavishly, the Creator’s example? Easy to recognize in ourselves the fatality which was His: not for nothing have we issued from the hands of a wicked and woebegone god, a god accursed.



There is always someone above you: beyond God Himself rises Nothingness.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was Cioran's style, I suppose, to use the common-sense ideas about "the Creator", "the Lord" in the way so many do, as though it were an undeniable given, like the undefined terms point, line, or plane.   He takes it for granted that everyone knows who this God character is.  Well, I suspect Cioran would be a difficult person to endure.  I say that even though his writings have made a deep impression on me.

I'll try not to be too judgmental of your ideas and your way of expressing your philosophy.  After all, I suppose each individual has a right to his or her own particular way of making some sense out of their existence, and, for many, the idea of a supreme being, a first cause, a "spirit that moves through all things", or even "the Great Spirit" must be common in the imagination of the species ... Still, having said all that, the word "God" does not express as much as "the spirit that moves through all things."

And even the word, "spirit", is a tad bit too other-worldly sounding.  I like Schopenhauer's use of the word "Will".  It removes all the mumbo-jumbo hocus-pocus voodoo bullshiit from the equation leaving us to contemplate the veins and sinews, the blood, guts, bones, nerve-endings, tooth decay, excrement, the foul odor of our very own breath, and, yes, the wonder of the thought processes in our heads.   I should not be so surprised that so many would ascribe the inner voices of their own brains to some other-worldly transcendent supernatural entities or aliens even.

The entire world is in our heads, but our heads are in the world.  When I read that line by Schopenhauer, I immediately suspected that he might have been on some level a comedian, not the stand up comic type, but more of a kind of man who might say things to people in passing that they would think about for the rest of their lives ... every damn day of their lives.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:33:01 pm by ? »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 10:46:57 am »
Mr.H.,
Thank you for your words. I hope your mother and father are well. And your nephew too. There are not many blogs where one can write. Not many find the subjects, that you and Holden, cover easy to deal with. The dominant position is that although we are trapped in this slaughterhouse, we must struggle, endure and suffer the consequences. Happiness must be pursued at all costs.You have the gift of life so do not complain.  It does not matter if you are born, put into a body that urinates, defecates every single day until you die. It does not matter that you must hide the stench of the body with perfumes and lotions and wipe our asses in order to hide the fact that we are animals. We hide that we seek pleasures with our genitals. I know that at this age no woman would approach me if I do not have the odour of money. Death is an unpleasant subject but we think of it all the time. I am not a believer, a Catholic one but here there is a saint not recognized, San La Muerte or Saint Death. A very popular saint in Paraguay and Argentina. That is the saint I "pray" to most often. I wish I could go and see the crypt of the catacombs of the Capuchins in Rome.Yes, Death is the true cult, a cult that is worshipped forever. I ask myself that if I ever decide to kill anyone, am I guilty? Aren´t I just  chemicals and molecules set by the DNA. I have no say in this madhouse. 
Stay safe.

Holden

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 11:59:26 pm »
Herr Hentrich,

I am the man who will think about Schopenhauer 's thought every day for the rest of his life.

Something you might want to check out:

https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Schopenhauers-Pessimism-Nineteenth-Century-Philosophy/dp/1138744271&grqid=Kg3gkxA1&hl=en-IN
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:07:08 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Gorticide :: Admin Elder Warrior

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Re: Negative Liberation
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 11:21:59 am »
I'll have to wait for the price to drop on that one.  Good find though.

It's a little too expensive right now since it appears to be hot off the press.

I don't understand why they charge so much for an electronic version.  The most I ever spent on a digital copy of a book was Von Hartmann's Philosophy of the Unconscious, and that I spent $35 on.  That is about the limit for me since I have a lifetime of material I may never get to, and there are always Schopenhauer's works sitting there in the shelf.
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Gorticide :: Admin Elder Warrior

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In my search for "dark thinkers" not afraid to probe, I discovered a pair of books by an Ernest Becker:

Denial of Death

Escape From Evil


quote:

What are we to make of a creation in which the routine activity is for organisms to be tearing others apart with teeth of all types—biting, grinding flesh, plant stalks, bones between molars, pushing the pulp greedily down the gullet with delight, incorporating its essence into one's own organization, and then excreting with foul stench and gasses the residue.
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~