Author Topic: Marat/Sade  (Read 1378 times)

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The Indignant One

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Marat/Sade
« on: September 15, 2014, 12:03:19 pm »
I've been watching the Marat/Sade play repeatedly.   You might get a kick out of it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 08:33:37 am by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Marat/Sade
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2014, 12:17:36 pm »
I am one of the crazies in the play.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

The Indignant One

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Re: Marat/Sade
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2014, 02:04:56 pm »
I find this play to be so hilarious that I almost wish I could take part in a rendition of it in an actual mental asylum!   :D

It inspired me to read (aloud into a recorder) Gunter Grass's "The Plebeians Rehearse the Uprising: a German Tragedy where the main character (Boss) supposedly represents Bertolt Brecht, whom I only recently discovered while browsing aimlessly in the library.  Where I am now, for some odd reason, this library has many obscure texts.  It's extremely UNCANNY.  Anyway, I read that Peter Weiss - who wrote the play Marat/Sade - was influenced by this Brecht.

The only play I ever read was Marlowe's The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus, and just yesterday The Plebeians Rehearse the Uprising.

I am going to try to read Brecht's Edward II, based on Christopher Marlowe's classic of the same name.   

I had not been interested in any literature since Ligotti.  I was sticking to Schopenhauer and Cioran, trying to read Lovecraft and Poe but the editions I have are in such small print I lost patience and went on a long drinking binge.

Fortunately I snapped out of it long enough to be bored enough to browse the library the old-fashioned way and my spirit is healed for the moment.

As for Marat/Sade, what a blast it would be just to play one of the minor roles!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 01:14:35 am by Kaspar Hauser »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Marat/Sade
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 12:10:11 pm »
I found this clipping to be a fair representative of what's happening in the society today.They want to standardise everything.
There is a certain corporate "image" all of us are supposed to reflect.There are times when I am forced to do that too,but invariable it leaves me feeling empty inside.Better to have never been,alas,its too late for us.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

The Indignant One

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(A writer musn't necessarily side with the winners)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaxeNqftgVY

of interest?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U_Rz7BxdBY

Günter Grass and Israel (Grass critices Israel)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxTOn_1S8c

What do you think of these apples?   :)

What Must Be Said

Why have I kept silent, held back so long,
on something openly practised in
war games, at the end of which those of us
who survive will at best be footnotes?


It's the alleged right to a first strike
that could destroy an Iranian people
subjugated by a loudmouth
and gathered in organized rallies,
because an atom bomb may be being
developed within his arc of power.


Yet why do I hesitate to name
that other land in which
for years – although kept secret –
a growing nuclear power has existed
beyond supervision or verification,
subject to no inspection of any kind?


This general silence on the facts,
before which my own silence has bowed,
seems to me a troubling, enforced lie,
leading to a likely punishment
the moment it's broken:
the verdict "Anti-semitism" falls easily.


But now that my own country,
brought in time after time
for questioning about its own crimes,
profound and beyond compare,
has delivered yet another submarine to Israel,
(in what is purely a business transaction,
though glibly declared an act of reparation)
whose speciality consists in its ability
to direct nuclear warheads toward
an area in which not a single atom bomb
has yet been proved to exist, its feared
existence proof enough, I'll say what must be said.


But why have I kept silent till now?
Because I thought my own origins,
tarnished by a stain that can never be removed,
meant I could not expect Israel, a land
to which I am, and always will be, attached,
to accept this open declaration of the truth.


Why only now, grown old,
and with what ink remains, do I say:
Israel's atomic power endangers
an already fragile world peace?
Because what must be said
may be too late tomorrow;
and because – burdened enough as Germans –
we may be providing material for a crime
that is foreseeable, so that our complicity
will not be expunged by any
of the usual excuses.


And granted: I've broken my silence
because I'm sick of the West's hypocrisy;
and I hope too that many may be freed
from their silence, may demand
that those responsible for the open danger
we face renounce the use of force,
may insist that the governments of
both Iran and Israel allow an international authority
free and open inspection of
the nuclear potential and capability of both.


No other course offers help
to Israelis and Palestinians alike,
to all those living side by side in enmity
in this region occupied by illusions,
and ultimately, to all of us.

Günter Grass  translated by Breon Mitchell.
__________________________________________________________________

In original German
:

Günter Grass warnt in der "Süddeutschen Zeitung" vor einem Krieg gegen Iran. In seinem Gedicht mit dem Titel "Was gesagt werden muss" fordert der Literaturnobelpreisträger deshalb, Israel dürfe keine deutschen U-Boote mehr bekommen.

(Günter Grass warned in the "Sueddeutsche Zeitung" newspaper of a war against Iran. In his poem entitled "What needs to be said", the Nobel Prize winner therefore demands that Israel should no longer receive German submarines.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was gesagt werden muss

Warum schweige ich, verschweige zu lange,
was offensichtlich ist und in Planspielen
geübt wurde, an deren Ende als Überlebende
wir allenfalls Fußnoten sind.

Es ist das behauptete Recht auf den Erstschlag,
der das von einem Maulhelden unterjochte
und zum organisierten Jubel gelenkte
iranische Volk auslöschen könnte,
weil in dessen Machtbereich der Bau
einer Atombombe vermutet wird.

Doch warum untersage ich mir,
jenes andere Land beim Namen zu nennen,
in dem seit Jahren - wenn auch geheimgehalten -
ein wachsend nukleares Potential verfügbar
aber außer Kontrolle, weil keiner Prüfung
zugänglich ist?

Das allgemeine Verschweigen dieses Tatbestandes,
dem sich mein Schweigen untergeordnet hat,
empfinde ich als belastende Lüge
und Zwang, der Strafe in Aussicht stellt,
sobald er mißachtet wird;
das Verdikt "Antisemitismus" ist geläufig.

Jetzt aber, weil aus meinem Land,
das von ureigenen Verbrechen,
die ohne Vergleich sind,
Mal um Mal eingeholt und zur Rede gestellt wird,
wiederum und rein geschäftsmäßig, wenn auch
mit flinker Lippe als Wiedergutmachung deklariert,
ein weiteres U-Boot nach Israel
geliefert werden soll, dessen Spezialität
darin besteht, allesvernichtende Sprengköpfe
dorthin lenken zu können, wo die Existenz
einer einzigen Atombombe unbewiesen ist,
doch als Befürchtung von Beweiskraft sein will,
sage ich, was gesagt werden muß.

Warum aber schwieg ich bislang?
Weil ich meinte, meine Herkunft,
die von nie zu tilgendem Makel behaftet ist,
verbiete, diese Tatsache als ausgesprochene Wahrheit
dem Land Israel, dem ich verbunden bin
und bleiben will, zuzumuten.

Warum sage ich jetzt erst,
gealtert und mit letzter Tinte:
Die Atommacht Israel gefährdet
den ohnehin brüchigen Weltfrieden?
Weil gesagt werden muß,
was schon morgen zu spät sein könnte;
auch weil wir - als Deutsche belastet genug -
Zulieferer eines Verbrechens werden könnten,
das voraussehbar ist, weshalb unsere Mitschuld
durch keine der üblichen Ausreden
zu tilgen wäre.

Und zugegeben: ich schweige nicht mehr,
weil ich der Heuchelei des Westens
überdrüssig bin; zudem ist zu hoffen,
es mögen sich viele vom Schweigen befreien,
den Verursacher der erkennbaren Gefahr
zum Verzicht auf Gewalt auffordern und
gleichfalls darauf bestehen,
daß eine unbehinderte und permanente Kontrolle
des israelischen atomaren Potentials
und der iranischen Atomanlagen
durch eine internationale Instanz
von den Regierungen beider Länder zugelassen wird.

Nur so ist allen, den Israelis und Palästinensern,
mehr noch, allen Menschen, die in dieser
vom Wahn okkupierten Region
dicht bei dicht verfeindet leben
und letztlich auch uns zu helfen.


A writer musn't necessarily side with the winners

https://youtu.be/VaxeNqftgVY?t=46



« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 04:39:46 am by Deep Truth »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

The Indignant One

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Reading "The Plebians Rehearse the Uprising"
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2021, 12:02:25 am »
I just uploaded these old files from 2014 to The Wayback Machine after discovering them on an old device.  These were created around the time that Holden had tracked me down ...

Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Marat/Sade
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2021, 05:11:21 pm »
You have a  mellifluous voice.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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A Strong Enough Magnet
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2021, 03:28:35 pm »
A strong enough magnet can magnetise a piece of iron. I am that piece of iron. You the strong magnet. Before I meet you I did run into Schopenhauer a couple of times,but I could have never understood him the way I do now without you.

Mathematics and Physics were never a problem per se, it was the context in which they were presented to me,that was the problem. The context of competitive exams.
Now, I see them in Schopenhauerian light, in your light.

https://youtu.be/L1--X17YNSE
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 03:33:37 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

The Indignant One

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Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

The Indignant One

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Re: Marat/Sade
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2021, 10:27:28 pm »
Quote from: Holden
Mathematics and Physics were never a problem per se, it was the context in which they were presented to me,that was the problem. The context of competitive exams.

Yes, competitive exams ruin the joy of learning.   As I mentioned in another thread, I had discovered ways to write my own programs where I would be able to check my solutions, save various formulas ... The calculators were transforming rapidly at the time (1994-1998).  It was about this time that Texas Instruments purchased DERIVE and turned it into their on board Computer Algebra System, prior to the TI-Nspire.

I have to admit that I am still not all that clear on what my identity is.  I appreciate you appreciating me.  Believe it or not, your interest in what I have had to say or write may have prevented others in my society from filling me with overwhelming self-doubt.
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~