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Nation of One

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Literary Experiment
« on: April 22, 2019, 10:33:05 am »
I am asking primarily Raul and Holden, but anyone is free to post comments which I would approve via email from Wordpress.    Someone recently left a comment to "The Great Literary Experiment," and I am asking for suggestions on how to respond.   Of course, I am in no rush.  Nor should you be either.    If anyone can respond, I would appreciate it.   

Considering the way I aliented "For the Birds" (anarch from whywork?) when it comes to my antagonism toward the use of the word "God,"  I am asking someone less antagonistic to field this comment.

The comment is from April 21st:

Quote from: Quasimodo
Antinatalism will never catch on. Islam is extremely pro-natalist, more than Christianity.

I was an atheist antinatalist, became a born-again Christian ~1.5 years ago. Mostly because of Vox Day hinting at the fact that Christianity gives the only satisfactory answer to the reality of sin and the problem of evil.

But even back as an atheist AN, I had no illusion of people continuing breeding. The best one can hope for is eugenics (see Chris Langan’s take on anti-dysgenics).

Scharia would be detrimental to AN, which is why I think most ANs are delusional about the current political climate.

I’m a Christian, and the born-again experience lifted, to some expression, my depression, but I’m also still a pessimist and reactionary, like good ol’ Schopenhauer. Have no interest in Europe turning into Eurafrica or Eurabia. Either the whole world becomes Christian and follows Augustine’s vision in “De bono coniugali” and “De bono viduitatis”, or the West needs to be defended.

In the end, it’s about saving one’s own soul anyway; and most people don’t care about our opinions. As the great Colombian Catholic Nicolás Gómez Dávila writes:

“Nobody, nothing, in the end forgives.
Except Christ.”

“Believe in God, trust in Christ, look with suspicion. “
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Ibra

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 11:43:03 am »
Thanks  Hentrich for your always insightful posts.I will just comment here because I don't have intelligible response.
As a muslim-lite, I do understand the western fears. we are tribal deep down as usual. I think in one comment in the wordpress post, you mention that your issue is with existence itself, not with a mere religion. which I wholly agree with.

Millions have illegally migrated to europe in last ten years from middle east because war and lack of food. it is amusing about  who speak of ideologies and religions. humans as every other wretched being in this slaughterhouse are not more intelligent than bacteria, we move to places with more food and multiply then we are no more. There is no way, to stop procreating with the power of reasoning and logic. we will just consume and procreate until the planet can not sustain us anymore.


Suffering is the only fruit of human race

raul

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 02:52:50 pm »
Hentrich,

Thank you for your post. I can only add some comments but I don’t know if it will be useful for you to respond to Quasimodo.
The little I know is that Islamic countries are pronatalist. But we can also say the same about China,India, Brazil and Mexico and the African continent. Even here in this small country, Paraguay, antinatalism will be viewed with suspicion. As Holden once said antinatalism is only for a minority.

We are almost eight billion people, a nonsense, a wild reproductive madness. We have already depleted water reserves, we are destroying fossil fuels, other species are being massacred at an alarming rate. And we do not stop, we do not want to know of what happens around us, we refuse to settle accounts with ourselves. We are out of control. We are demonic clowns.

I disagree with Quasimodo when he says “that Christianity gives the only satisfactory answer to the reality of sin and the problem of evil.” One must consider the other world religions.  All have something important to say about sin and evil. Anyway we are just pawns in this cruel game called life. 

One thing I am sure is that this planet will collapse one day. We,human beings, are harmful and we destroy everything in our path. But why take care of this planet if this is a prison farm anyway? We are just food here. Being Christian, Muslim, Hindu or agnostic does not change our rotten core.   

I once saw a movie many years ago with actor Jean Claude Van Damme. Hard Target was the title. It was about powerful people hunting humans.  I think the power elite uses the entire planet as target for their games. They certainly how to apply their own view of antinatalism. Pol Pot,the Khmer Rouge leader, in Cambodya from 1975 to 1979 “successfully” reduced the population with two million deaths. The Great Helmsman, Mao, sent 20,000,000 Chinese to their deaths with his so-called Great Leap Forward. Ugandan President Idi Amin Dada massacred 300,000 people before ousted from power in 1979. And I do not mention the endless wars in the Middle East and other parts of this wretched planet.

Just in 1918 after the end of WWI the Spanish flu attacked causing the death of two million people in two years. Then you have Ebola which has been attacking Africa since the 1970s. I read that this virus comes from bats. As long as the dead were blacks nobody paid attention but the viruses know no borders and began arriving in Europe and the U.S. I would not be surprised, as it happened in the Middle Ages, if people infected with Ebola were used as human bombs. One just has to send these sick people to the main cities in Europe, the U.S. and Japan and that´s it. Human beings have been using this tactics for millennia.

I do not forget that I am part of a generation that grew up being terrified of AIDS. A Paraguayan lawyer with AIDS infected many of his girlfriends with it. Now he is in jail but the poor ladies are suffering.

Quasimodo says “Believe in God, trust in Christ, look with suspicion. “ I would use “look with suspicion” better. I do not trust God.

Stay safe.

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 10:00:23 am »
Thank you each for your input.   I read your responses before I posted a response.

Quote from: xHentric
Either the whole world becomes Christian and follows Augustine’s vision in “De bono coniugali” and “De bono viduitatis”, or the West needs to be defended.

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying here.
Let’s see.

“De bono coniugali” —–> On the Good of Marriage?
“de bono viduitatis” —–> On the Good of Widowhood?

Augustine wrote that the consecrated widow occupies a higher place among members of Christ than does a married woman (De bono conjugali). I find these kinds of declarations of “status” or some kind of hierarchy almost childish. It’s like listening to children make-believe play, where they make up the rules as they go along.

I’m not sure if any religious institution can be trusted when it comes to finding answers to the questions concerning the politics procreation.

As for “Believe in God, trust in Christ, look with suspicion,“ Raul of Paraguay suggests we drop the first two and keep only the last part of that statement: Look with suspicion.

I must say that, when I hear someone claiming to be a “born again Christian,” I tend to back off. I have my reasons to suspect that dialogue may not get too far between us. I do not say this to be mean-spirited. I just have other things I prefer to think about than “souls,” “God”, etc …

I’m tired of all that.

You know, you can't really argue about these things.   I say, let people believe whatever the fuuck they want to believe.   I don't care what they believe, to be honest.

An aside:  Ibra, have you ever heard of Al-Maʿarri?


Al-Maʿarri was a sceptic in his beliefs who denounced superstition and dogmatism in religion. This, along with his general negative view on life, has made him described as a pessimistic freethinker. One of the recurring themes of his philosophy was the right of reason against the claims of custom, tradition, and authority. Al-Maʿarri taught that religion was a "fable invented by the ancients", worthless except for those who exploit the credulous masses.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 11:21:53 am by H(x) »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 01:53:05 pm »
Herr  Kaspar,
I  see that  I  am  late  to   the party,well, I  was trying to  decipher  “De bono coniugali” and “De bono viduitatis”   during the   day today  so that  I  could  provide  an appropriate  response  and  really   when  you  wrote  "Augustine wrote that the consecrated widow occupies a higher place among members of Christ than does a married woman (De bono conjugali)"   you  immediately  reached the heart of  the matter.

I    could dig   up  the  following:
Most of the instruction is Augustine’s interpretation of the teaching about marriage and celibacy in Paul’s first Letter to the Corinthians. Echoing what Augustine had already stated a decade earlier in his treatise, De bono conjugali (“On the Good of Marriage”), Augustine repeated that Paul’s affirmation of the superiority of celibacy was not a disparagement of marriage.  Even so, he here then adds that a consecrated widow such as Juliana to whom he is writing occupies a higher place among the members of Christ than does a married woman (De bono conjugali 3.4).

Is  Mr.Quasimodo  saying that   "consecrated" widowhood is  better    than  being married(what about unconsecrated widowhood?)? And yet Augustine seems to have some very nice things to say about marriage too.
 https://www.pathsoflove.com/texts/augustine-marriage-outline/

Correct me if I am wrong but "to the Manichean argument that marriage is bad because procreation is bad, Augustine offers the counter-thesis that it is precisely the goodness of procreation which makes marriage good".
http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/augustine.htm

Is  he trying   to  convert you  to  Christianity and   white  nationalism? :D  Well,  I wish him good luck with that  mission :D
But there is one more thing I wish to say.He seems to be overly concerned with the entire "Western Civilisation" and cites  Vox    Day   as an inspiration (someone who believes that "we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children")  on the one hand and Schopenhauer on the other.

Let's not forget that when the Napoleonic Wars were  raging in Europe and Hegel was falling over himself to look at the World-Spirit on horseback,Schopenhauer had retreated to a small town and was engrossed in writing"On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason".
But then maybe he would say that Schopenhauer would have fought if the enemies were from the Middle-east ;D Well,maybe ;)


There are a lot of things I admire about the European civilisation and detest  about the Indian one,but far be it from me  to   take up arms  for any kind of "civilization".The Church to which Mr.Quasimodo now belongs looks at the world in collective terms.That is where I disagree with him.

I don't care a  hoot about the Indian or the Western civilisation I just want to get out of this terrible place in the least painful way possible.
Quote
Among Christians, only Protestants have ever believed that work smacks of salvation; the work and prayer of medieval Christendom were interspersed with festivals. The ancient Greeks sought salvation in philosophy, the Indians in meditation, the Chinese in poetry and the love of nature. The pygmies of the African rainforests — now nearly extinct — work only to meet the needs of the day, and spend most of their lives idling.
-John Gray

I am sorry to say but "Western Civilisation" is little more than a figment of imagination of Mr.Quasimodo's.

Being  born once was bad enough,why would anyone want to be "born again"?  ;)Is that not exactly what I am trying not to get into?If anything, it will push me into an even deeper depression ;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 01:57:09 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 07:35:21 pm »
Great stuff Holden!

Thank you.

Quote from: Holden
Is  he trying   to  convert you  to  Christianity and   white  nationalism? :D  Well,  I wish him good luck with that  mission :D

But there is one more thing I wish to say.He seems to be overly concerned with the entire "Western Civilisation" and cites  Vox    Day   as an inspiration (someone who believes that "we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children")  on the one hand and Schopenhauer on the other.

What's interesting about that contradiction is that Black Supremacist psychiatrist, Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, cites volume two of The World as Will and Representation, specifically, from the chapter, The Metaphysics of Sexual Love, where Schopenhauer states one of my favorite of his "asides."   In most translations, the word is "Incidentally."   In the following excerpt, the word is "en passant" (in passing).  Also, the spelling of Hindu is often "Hindoo."

Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
We now come to those other relative considerations which depend on each individual trying to eradicate, through the medium of another, his weaknesses, deficiencies, and deviations from the type, in order that they may not be perpetuated in the child that is to be born or develop into absolute abnormities. The weaker a man is in muscular power, the more will he desire a woman who is muscular; and the same thing applies to a woman. . . .

Nevertheless, if a big woman choose a big husband, in order, perhaps, to present a better appearance in society, the children, as a rule, suffer for her folly. Again, another very decided consideration is complexion. Blonde people fancy either absolutely dark complexions or brown; but it is rarely the case vice versâ. The reason for it is this: that fair hair and blue eyes are a deviation from the type and almost constitute an abnormity, analogous to white mice, or at any rate white horses. They are not indigenous to any other part of the world but Europe — not even to the polar regions — and are obviously of Scandinavian origin. En passant, it is my conviction that a white skin is not natural to man, and that by nature he has either a black or brown skin like our forefathers, the Hindoos, and that the white man was never originally created by nature; and that, therefore, there is no race of white people, much as it is talked about, but every white man is a bleached one. Driven up into the north, where he was a stranger, and where he existed only like an exotic plant, in need of a hothouse in winter, man in the course of centuries became white. The gipsies, an Indian tribe which emigrated only about four centuries ago, show the transition of the Hindoo’s complexion to ours. In love, therefore, nature strives to return to dark hair and brown eyes, because they are the original type; still, a white skin has become second nature, although not to such an extent as to make the dark skin of the Hindoo repellent to us.
The above just happens to be a passage that had hit me like a drop of LSD when I first read it.    It is also the passage Dr. Frances Cress Welsing quotes in The Isis Papers

Quote
According to the 19th century German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer:

“…the white colour of skin is not natural to man, but that by nature he has a black or brown skin, like our forefathers the Hindus; that consequently a white man has never originally sprung from the womb of nature, and that thus there is no such thing as a white race, as much as this is talked of, but every white man is a faded or bleached one.”

OK, where I get a little confused is when people "of color" refer to themselves as non-white people.  If there is no such thing as a "white race" or a pink-skinned people, then surely there are no such thing as non-white people either.

It's all a figment of our imaginations!   ??? 

Of course, I am not sure where any of this kind of talk can lead, but I wanted to honor Holden's post with something more than just a thank you.

You know, even with insight into the sociological construction of "race identity," it is difficult for me not to think that what is so, is so.   I mean, one look at H.P. Lovecraft and you can see this is one strange "white dude."    In a police report, the officers would write down "white male" to describe me.  If I were inebriated and psychotic, they might even make me out to be some kind of "antisemite" or some other term used to classify or categorize. 


Quote from: Holden
I am sorry to say but "Western Civilisation" is little more than a figment of imagination of Mr.Quasimodo's.

This is a fascinating thing to consider.

In the meantime, I'm going to let my teeth fall out and maybe die by a river alone like wild wolf.  We're all strange creatures, no matter how we are collectively categorized.

I enjoyed reading Nell Irvin Painter's "The History of White People."   From my notes:
Quote
2011.05.06

I wish I had had access to Nell Irvin Painter’s research when I was a teenager for it answers many questions and validates my intuitive sense of kinship with the original indigenous Native “Indians” of North America. There are parallels between Caesar’s war of conquest and the “Indian” wars of North America, with Gauls/Germans cast as Native Aborigines and Vercingetorix as the Seneca Chief Pontiac, the Apache Chief Geronimo, or the Lakota (Sioux) Chief Sitting Bull at Wounded Knee: all valiant, but all defeated. What happened to the indigenous peoples of North America 500 years ago happened to indigenous peoples of Northern Europe thousands of years ago. Caesar’s Gallic War foreshadows and parallels chapters in the history of the United States of America, in which colonizing “Americans” play Caesar’s imperial role.


“… We must consider the Spiritual genocide that they commit against us. The spiritual genocide that the white people have been victimized by for thousands of years … " ~ John Trudell
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 11:31:26 pm by H(x) »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 09:45:39 pm »
In one of the 6 questions, I am reminded of this thread, or where it can't help but lead in any kind of dialogue with Q.

After all, I see one could find Schopenhauer to be contradictory at times in these matters:

 You also wrote a lot about racial theory, saying in the second volume of Parerga and Paralipomena that high civilization belonged only to the northern white races and that even where it was found in more tropical regions there was a paler upper caste that exercised a monopoly on rule. Do you accept that these attitudes are racist and that they served to justify a lot of misery in the colonial era, that has continued even to this day?


Look, I wrote that back in the middle of the nineteenth century. We didn’t know about DNA and genetic make-up. We didn’t know that the genetic differences between Aboriginals in Australia and Nordic peoples in Scandinavia were infinitesimal. Of course, now we know this. And by the way, I do read the New York Times, especially the Science Section. More to the point, back at the time that I wrote this, I was under the influence of the Sanskritic writers of the Vedic period. You can’t be more racist than those people were. You seem to have forgotten that the people I identified as the world’s natural elite actually had brown skin and inhabit what we now call the developing world.

Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Ibra

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2019, 06:58:00 pm »
Hentrich,
I know ِAl-Ma'arri. I even visited the the city of Ma'arra back when I was in Syria.I am reading slowly his poetry work called "Luzumiat" (necessities) since a year. he used classical Arabic, almost archaic nowadays, but he was surely a talented in words. nicknamed "double prisoner" (Arabic pronunciation: Raheen Almahbasain) of isolation and blindness as Wikipedia tells.  his themes in this work are the relentlessness attack on the business of life, consulting loneliness and isolation as a cure, and preparation for death.

Poetry in Arabic culture is celebrated since thousands of years. historically we have a market for poetry competition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souk_Okaz .

Here are some words i read this week, excuse my bad translation of course

- "there is nothing for man but isolation and loneliness If he can't reach what he sought
fight if you like or make peace , for Time*, the fighter and the peaceful are the same"

* for time: from the Time reference, viewpoint , i mean according to the time. I guess Mr Hentrich, you can rephrase it better.

Another one:

- "Upon my life*, I saw many foreigners  and arabs; neither foreigners I liked nor arabs"

*Upon my life: is a kind of a swear used by poets a lot for emphasizing . it is elegant on the tongue too ("La'amri")

- "Everyone avoids the doom, but it is a glass everyone will drink from"

Be safe








Suffering is the only fruit of human race

Nation of One

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Re: Literary Experiment
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2019, 11:54:07 pm »
consulting loneliness and isolation as a cure

I learned very young to cherish secret places where I could wander to and hide.   
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~