Author Topic: Lovecraft..again  (Read 3380 times)

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Nation of One

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 03:29:30 pm »
I wish I could upload my dreams.  Such strange scenes ... indescribable.

In AGAINST THE WORLD, AGAINST LIFE I learned that Lovecraft looked to his dreams for material to write about.  It's all so strange how we pass through this reality.

The way you feel about Lovecraft, I think I understand a little.  I mean, I get that sense of my total insignificance when I consider all the mental energy that has gone into computer programming and mathematics tools ...

And yet, look at how Lovecraft, the man, lived ... as Mr. Nobody totally disgusted and repulsed  by humanity.   It almost feels grotesque that we have to deal with money-systems and social hierarchies that bully and coerce us ... And I'm not just talking about systematic submission to economic forces, but even the politics of all human institutions, including universities and publishing industries.  What a bunch of monkeys!

 :D

[EDIT] ... I meant  >:(
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 09:05:38 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2016, 02:51:30 pm »
Thank you for your message.I am okay.I am sorry for not writing sooner,but let's not forget-I'm a slave who cannot do things when he'd like to do them.
But apart from the trouble of being a wage slave,there's a trouble which I think is more profound.I mean,upto a certain point there are no problems to speak of:there is only my body-my mouth,my nose ,my eyes etc.
But at some point,it begins to seem that its my eyes that regard me,rather than I them;that that my mouth speaks of things outside of my knowledge.I think an entirely different creature is hiding behind my face,wholly unrecognisable to me(could this be the reason why I never put my photograph here? Because I don't think that would be really representative ?).

I am forced to spend considerable time reshaping my reflection into "what it should be".
I am glad you have found solace in mathematics.I promise to write more often-a slave can always rebel :P
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Nation of One

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2016, 04:09:56 pm »
Quote
But apart from the trouble of being a wage slave,there's a trouble which I think is more profound.I mean,upto a certain point there are no problems to speak of:there is only my body-my mouth,my nose ,my eyes etc.

But at some point,it begins to seem that its my eyes that regard me,rather than I them;that that my mouth speaks of things outside of my knowledge.I think an entirely different creature is hiding behind my face,wholly unrecognisable to me

A different creature that is unrecognizable?  Pardon the z ... I can't help it.  Writing on this freeboards forces me to take notice of all the words that are spelled differently in "American English" from Britain's English.  Surely these freeboards are from across the pond from where I am.  Still, regardless of the red squiggly lines under the words, I will stubbornly follow the custom ...

Actually, what you say brings to mind thoughts of the presence of tubes and orifices.  We are so conditioned to view ourselves as personas, as social masks with personalities, that sometimes, when we get a glimpse of our being a bundle of perceptions brought about by the slimy creature made of tubes and organic wires, maybe this creeps us out.  Maybe there are different [arts of the mind, and, being reflective, you sometimes apprehend the thingly presence which breathes and has flowing blood and beating heart.

Don't be too concerned about appearances.  And don't worry about posting here ... This is not a job.  Enjoy the Ligotti stories while you are out of the harness.

Don't forget that even the rebel slave doesn't always get totally free from the plantation of the slave patrol, even if it is just being mandated to sit in a room hearing "addiction treatment" nonsense all day ...

I'm telling you, it is only my interest in mathematics and programming that is keeping my spirit from being broken by "therapy as punishment" in the farce called "the day program".

Don't let the bastards wear on your nerves ...

 ::)


Myself, I felt like dropping to my knees in thanks when I opened the package to find Coding the Matrix was a fat 500 page text ... It will really add some fun to my studies ... I'm still using the other text by Poole, but it's cool to break up the routine of just working on exercises with pencil and paper.  I had really been feeling suffocated from being trapped in the "program" all day ... and the arrival of the latest text lifted my spirits.  It forced me to do some tinkering to prepare the computing environment ... and it forces me to slow down my pace with the other text.  I don't want to race. 

Life can get really weird just being in the skin, Holden.   I spend a lot of time in my head.  I like to be alone.  To be honest, people generally get on my nerves, and I really resent being at the mercy of authoritarian "teacher/counsellor" types who get paid to tell other people how to think and feel ... I can't imagine how Schopenhauer would react to such a situation.  Perhaps he would have a temper tantrum and get himself locked away in an asylum.

We have to fight for our minds.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 01:18:34 am by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2016, 01:17:49 am »
IT IS WEIRD:A relative of a relative, married a lovely Russian woman and brought her and her lovely young daughter over to his (their) house . He met her through a Russian dating site.

Guess what happened next?

She magically transformed into the Mad Wife from Hell! And, the Daughter too! I kid you not! I think he's still alive, but I can't promise it!

He would have been a lot happier, had he married Bride of Frankenstein instead!

Men are such tools.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2016, 10:24:10 am »
Psychological horror.   It's no wonder that I prefer to focus on how to perform arithmetic operations on tuples in Python.  The only way to transcend the nightmare of the whole seems to involve focusing the mind on some, what would we call it, pursuit of knowledge ...

You know, I was up late into the night engrossed in gaining understanding of "comprehension" in Python last night.  I resisted the urge to move ahead in a text (to get to the "real" mathematics), and I am putting some energy into understanding things that I might think are insignificant as I am trusting that the author finds these constructs important enough to include as "preliminaries".

Anyway, since Sunday mornings I usually put headphones on and listen to some Youtube videos to block out the preacher on the TV my mom listens to, I notice the videos being suggested to me all have to do with "Muslim migrants in Germany saying how disgusting Germans are (for eating pork) ..."   There is this hysteria about certain folks being wiped off the face of the earth via populations who produce many offspring. 

I would rather not think of such matters.  It will play itself out, and I, for one, seem not the least bit concerned in preservation of my "kind".   I really never really paid much attention to Lovecraft, but I can't help but think a little about his experiences in New York City.   

Rather than feed into the hysteria I take refuge in mathematical and programming problems.  Evidently, I am not too clear on what my place is in this world.  Pair ponding with a woman was a failed experiment for me.  It was over twenty years ago, and it was absurd.   I would be holed up in a room studying math textbooks, and she would pester me to watch movies with her, to be more interested in s-e-x, to be a "tool" ...

And what would the producers of these "culture wars" videos have me do?  Reproduce so there will be another useless philosopher born who becomes horrified and dejected by the absurd comedy of the process we are trapped in.  No, and again, no.  I may be considered selfish and self-absorbed for wishing to pursue deeper understanding of abstractions, but it is my only refuge.

What kinds of ideas do I want floating around in my head?   When I am focusing on technical matters, lurking underneath is an awareness that none of the mathematics and programming would exist without the biological processes of reproduction, the killing to eat, the heat of the sexual impulse, etc ...

I imagine I will experience great relief to reach the end of this uneventful life.  In the meantime, when I find sanctuary, I will attempt to steal some genuine satisfaction by stubbornly engaging in the useless activity of increasing my knowledge incrementally at an infinitesimally slow rate.  For me, this is as good as it gets.  My dream has always been to outsmart those forces which turn men into tools for other men, or tools for the whims of a woman.

What I appreciate about our communications is that I can be blunt about my dismal view of the world without being bombarded with criticisms.

- against the world, against life ---- that sums it up, doesn't it?

Since this thread kind of honors [sic, another complaint from the spell-checker from Britain], I will link to the Youtube videos which some software chose me as its targeted audience.  Trust me, I have to do all I can to remain focused on what I want to focus on.  One of the small pleasures I steal from this swamp of misery are experiencing some little breakthroughs while learning about areas of knowledge that once were obscure and mysterious to me.

I can see why Hermann Hesse imagined a monastery-like university in the Glass Bead Game.

This madhouse planet could use some kind of intellectual sanctuary in the midst of all the carnage and fuucking and shiiting.

Please understand that I do not wish to see you waste your mental energies on the videos I am linking to.  I just want to give you a sample of the kinds of videos that show up to greet my face at the monitor of the notebook computer when I go to youtube to block out a TV in the background. 

Trust me, I don't like to think of such things.   It would be a great thought experiment to imagine the ability to read minds and witness what HPL would felt upon witnessing such phenomena. 

I am not ashamed to say that I just want to hide away and study, as usual.  All these "wars of the womb" are not my battle to fight.  I do believe I have resigned from the species.  What kind of world is this?   I do hate it.   

Again, don't let this shiit distract you.  There has to be a way to transcend the hyped up madness.  What a species!   ::)

I am glad to be disappearing, I assure you.  I will join Schopenhauer in the great nothingness { }.







« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 10:31:07 am by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 10:18:24 pm »
The Cosmos of Duty  has been reduced to Chaos:and the prolonged effort of the human intellect to frame a perfect ideal of conduct is foredoomed to inevitable failure.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2016, 01:23:11 pm »
The Chemistry of things is so delicate.And this word chemistry.What does it mean but a mingling,a mixing,a gushing together?The worst fear of society-yes,the world transformed into a senseless nightmare,horrible dissolution of things-but sooner or later faces change,shadows speak,sky comes down ,melting like wax.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 01:38:57 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 01:09:16 pm »
Lovecraft,the poor man, died with almost not recognition at all.When he died ,he was almost unknown outside a small  a small circle of friends & correspondents.Not a single book of his stories had been professionally published.The book"Rhode Island,a Guide to the Smallest State issued by the Federal Writers' Project in the year of his death ,does not mention Lovecraft in its chapter on Rhode Island's  writers.
In my mind Lovecraftian horror and mathematics are intertwined & so are you and Lovecraft.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2016, 01:28:10 pm »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 12:46:41 am »
Quote from: Thomas Buhls
"If we lose ourselves in the contemplation of the infinite greatness of the universe in space and time, meditate on the thousands of years that are past or to come, or if the heavens at night actually bring before our eyes the innumerable worlds and so force upon our consciousness the immensity of the universe, we feel ourselves dwindle to nothing as individuals, as living bodies, as transient phenomena of will, we feel ourselves pass away and vanish into nothing like drops in the ocean. – Arthur Schopenhauer, “On the Inner Nature of Art,” WWR

This is what Schopenhauer calls the Sublime. The sublime is what we feel when we are encountered with something that exceeds the limits of our senses. When we are faced with the sublime, our senses of reason and comprehension are suspended; our capacity to reason and communicate become ineffective. The sublime is not something which is simply inconceivable to us, or something which confounds our reason. The sublime is not a mysterious puzzle to which we cannot find the solution. The sublime is terrifying because it is impossible for our senses to completely register, and it completely overwhelms our senses in a forceful and uncompromising assault.

The Thing in Itself and the Absolute are completely beyond our sensible intuition, and thus must fall entirely within the realm of the sublime. Access to the Absolute would be nothing less than complete absolute mind-bending terror.

This is where Lovecraft comes in.

While the other philosophers were busy trying to draw the line at where our senses would stop perceiving the given world, and what it would feel like if we could have access to the Thing in Itself or the Absolute, Lovecraft told us what it would look like.

In Memorial of H.P. Lovecraft, the Philosopher of Terror
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2016, 08:13:40 pm »
Quote from: Holden
In my mind Lovecraftian horror and mathematics are intertwined & so are you and Lovecraft.

While I have read Lovecraft's stories, where I feel most intertwined with Lovecraft is in my general anxiety over my way of life.  What I mean is that, while I am not obsessed with his stories, I feel like I am a protagonist in a Lovecraft tale.   I suffer a definite anxiety over being able to continue to study as I have been over this past year.  I see the traps and pitfalls that would send my life into a downward spiral. 

There is also the anxiety over the possibility of not being able to cover as much as I might, always feeling I have to develop a stronger grasp of foundational material before proceeding to a different level.   Then there is the disconnect I feel with mainstream society.  I feel my concerns are a million miles away from the practical concerns of the masses such as car repairs or holding down a job. 

It seems that my current living arrangements are ideal for intense daily studying of difficult subjects, and so I experience a certain anxiety quite similar to the anxiety experienced by a drug fiend who is continuously anxious about the depletion of his/her stash.

I behold the small library of books on the shelves and understand that were I dwelling in a place on my own, I might find it difficult to maintain the emotional and mental stability necessary for a life of the mind.

Then there is the state of the world.  I behold how self-absorbed I am ... how all I care about is getting through textbooks, becoming more familiar with code and algorithms ... my notes ... this interior realm of numbers and symbols.   

I am obsessed, and even when I am passionate about my "studies" it is not an altogether pleasant experience.  Like I said, it has some similarities to the plight of a dope fiend.

In order to preserve this way of life, I would be willing to live on a minimum of food. 

I would have no choice but to attempt to continue this way of life even in an environment where alcohol-crazed vampires swarmed about me. 

It's only because of the kind of dialogue Holden and I have been able to maintain that I even have a "forum" to speak of such things, such as this sense of guilt or shame over my detachment from the concerns of society.  In this sense my life is intertwined with Lovecraft's.

How so?  Well, the subjects that interest me belong to a world dominated by very big institutions such as universities, corporations, and even the military.  I feast on the crumbs that fall from their tables and I am even grateful for the work produced by academics, the intellectuals ... but I am somehow not of that class.  I am some kind of outcast.  And so I live a secret life in the shadows ... others may wonder what it is I am scribbling all day ... what is it I do from morning to past midnight?

So, yes, Holden.  I am intertwined with Lovecraft in that I feel I am living some kind of psychological horror.  My dreams are rampant with strange mathematics, and even though these dreams are a nightmarish sort, I yearn for more like some kind of fiend.

If there were some kind of very powerful demon (imaginary, of course), I might be tempted to make some kind of Faustian deal where, for a deep intuitive grasp of the mathematics of physics (linear algebra, calculus *especially vector calculus, differential equations, and of course the problems presented in engineering and physics itself), I would make some kind of trade, where I would promise to be an instructor in some kind of prison if I lived to be much older --- preferably as a staff member and not as an inmate!   [be careful what you ask for when making deals with powerful demons]

I'm starting to scare myself.  I take it back!   :-\
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 09:38:31 pm by Nobody »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2017, 07:29:12 pm »
Holden,
In what order would you suggest one approach the stories Lovecraft left us?

Could you list some of the specific stories which you found were most capable of helping you to behold the feeling of horror and dread?   the cosmic kind of horror ...
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Tale about a German:The Music of Erich Zann
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2017, 11:21:04 am »


Well,you once said that you have read almost everything by Nietzsche & while you don't agree with him philosophically you do admire his frugal and Spartan lifestyle. Likewise,what draws me to Lovecraft is the palpable nervous energy which I can feel in most of his writings. I do identify with that energy. You see in 2014 when I was deep into Lovecraft ,immediately after completing his oeuvre I come across Schopenhauer,thanks to you, just like the protagonist of Lovecraftian tale comes across the "Old Ones". I suppose my personality is all somewhat similar to Lovecraft's.

I am telling you Mr.H,Schopenhauer ,once I could master some of his terminology, blew my mind away. Schopenhauer was for me the culmination of Lovecraft. I think I might well end up devoting my whole life to the study of the Schopenhauerian philosophy.It is  as if ever since I learnt to read,I read everything else,only to be able to understand Schopenhauer in the end. In the pre-Schopenhauerian days I used to sometimes feel sad because I thought that "the rich" &"the beautiful" would perhaps torment me forever. Now, all such fears have evaporated.

Now to begin with,I would like to suggest to you a Lovercraftian tale about a German:
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mez.aspx   


La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 07:55:40 pm »
That music goes great with the reading of this thread.

Down and dirty link:  Lovecraft Rising: Tracing the Growth of Scholarship on Howard Phillips Lovecraft, 1990-2004

There is something bitterly heroic about having the courage and audacity to openly display superior sensibilities while struggling to maintain a speck of dignity as a human animal "included in" but hardly "belonging to" society, that is, to be mystified and brutally mocked by economic realities while "keeping one's head together" --- such seems to be the fate of those who possess qualities you personally find HEROIC.   

Do you find you are forgiving toward Schopenhauer for his financial advantages?  I rather feel sorry for poor Friedrich, witnessing the delight in the ice-cold laughter of those who mock such "nervous wrecks" as these.  Maybe Schopenhauer had a little more composure and equanimity due to MONEY IN THE BANK.   Ouch.  It pains me to acknowledge that Arthur-in-and-of-himself, without father Heinrich's suicide and inheritance, may have always been quite the nervous wreck, if not totally Van Gogh, Artaud style institutionalization in a psychiatric ward (insane asylum).

Money in the bank lends a great amount of independence, even from the tyrannical hostility his own mother bombarded him with.

This is why I affectionately refer to Arthur Schopenhauer as the Buddha of Berlin, since Prince Siddhartha was also born into "the aristocracy" ---- but the Buddha supposedly became a penniless wanderer.   Such a life, as it was actually lived, must be filled with contradictions.   And yet,  Heinrich Schopenhauer was a merchant (international business dealer), not exactly Royalty, if you get my drift.    Schopenhauer spread that inheritance to last his lifetime and still donated it to soldiers wounded in battle (like a community home).  That is, he was no, what's his name? from DEAD MAN, Johnny Depp.    No.   He probably lived quite a humble life in comparison to the Philistines the world over who lead "normal" "middle class" lives ....   

I, for one, am indebted to him for devoting his life to such a serious matter as the very riddle of our existence.   To me, yes, there is no doubt in my mind that Schopenhauer is a hero to me.   I am impressed mostly with his defiance, although as stated, his "financial advantages" must have fueled his confidence; whereas this Howard Phillips was plagued by insecurities having to do not just with his relative poverty.

You may not share your society's definitions of heroic.  You are correct in your assessment of where I stand when it comes to crazy Uncle Friedrich.   I agree with Cioran when he says that Nietzsche gives the impression of a boy whistling in the dark to diminish his fears.    Otherwise, considering his humble and solitary way of life,  I would of course find Nietzsche to have lived a far more heroic life than most of the false heroes of contemporary society with the goofy celebrity culture, sports, gambling, automobiles, and the gun-toting foot-soldiers of whoever pins medals of honor on them.

There is no doubt about it, my friend.  Our heroes were freaks. 

I have been getting a close look at most individual human animals.  We're all freaks; and the more the global media outlets display their ideal prototypes, the less the masses are able to meet the expectations of the thoughtless, demanding, arrogant "owners" and "rulers," and Human Resources gorts-in-charge.

It is one thing to imagine HP Lovecraft putting on a uniform to stock shelves on the night shift at a local grocery store.  Creepy?   Well, he's tall.   "We can use tall people like that." (says management)

Depending on his co-workers, he would be leaning toward suicide or nervous collapse just having to endure what the [poor] workers have to get through each day.    Some people can't deal with the degradation, and they sob in public, or they repress that impulse.  Most must do exactly that.   Emotional time bombs everywhere!

Now imagine Schopenhauer cleaning toilets in a public restroom.

Ego deflating social position.

But I must have learned something during my life to make such manual labor not at all shameful, but a kind of spiritual exercise, the kind religious monks in the mountains of India might find some kind of Mojo.

Sometimes I find myself envying the eccentric (mentally ill) relatives of the wealthy who get to live in a little shack in the backyard.    Ah ... to follow one's bliss with the support of a "wealthy family."

You see how tricky this is, this "dignity" thing, this idea of the heroic?

Maybe the concept of hero is not even appropriate.   Maybe we just find such peculiar men to give us the courage to face our own "weirdness."

I wonder what Frances Cress Welsing thought of Lovecraft.  He would have made a great specimen for her to validate her theories ... about the fears and insecurities awakened in a man such as Lovecraft should he find himslef in the midst of nearly any city on the planet.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 08:40:22 pm by _id_Crisis_ »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Lovecraft..again
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2019, 10:48:29 am »
Do you find you are forgiving toward Schopenhauer for his financial advantages?-Herr Kaspar
I think,Herr Kapar, that Schopenhauer made optimal use of his paternal wealth. No, I do feel envious towards him. All I feel is profound gratitude.
My father is quite determined to make sure that I remain employed till I am alive.He hates the “retired life”. For now, my tuberculosis is under control and I am taking medicines but this disease is known to haunt the patient.
Isn’t that a nice word? Patient? Usually ,I am ,indeed, quite patient.
Frances Cress Welsing,well, I looked her up and she ,for all her degrees, appears ,to put it plainly, unhinged.Most of the time I am confused.My senses serve me with information that I am not sure I can rely upon.Every newspaper here is a tabloid and every tabloid,full of half-naked women.
Maybe Sanders will win and your social security benefits will get enhanced.I hope that happens and that you continue to have basic amenities of life. I almost wrote that I would pray to God for you but then,I cannot really,can I,being an atheist and all.
I think we need to take it one day at a time. Have tons of patience. I am working on quadratic equations at the moment.Kind of things like-what is the condition for one root of the quadratic equation to be twice the other. Things of that nature. Needless to say I go very slowly.I need at least a couple of years more before I can be somewhat proficient at these kind of thing.My coat of arms has got a tortoise for I move really slowly.
As regards Lovecraft, I think it would have been better for him had he never married,what her name, Sonia. Had he never visited New York at all.
Take care.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.