Author Topic: Anguish Tabulator  (Read 219 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

gorticide

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 3025
  • Cyclothymic Layabout
Anguish Tabulator
« on: February 26, 2019, 06:54:33 pm »
Zappfe wrote that sublimation is the conversion of anguish into uplifting pursuits, such as art and literature.  For me, it is the study of mathematics.  While this may not be very "uplifting," it certainly does qualify as an attempt to convert anguish into something more easily endured.

And yet, what about the anguish that is very often experienced when the mind is not so sharp, when the struggle to make sense of something intensifies the anguish rather than converting it into an "uplifting pursuit?"

With this thread I draw a line of demarcation between the all-too-medical term, depression, and something I wish to distinguish as different from what has been defined in clinical terms by medical professionals.

I am talking about the basic anguish inherent in being a sentient life-form.

What will differentiate this thread from the Depression Tabulator thread?

Well, therein lies the rub.  It is an experimental attempt to see if I can tell the difference, subjectively, between clinical depression and the general anguish inherent in all life, especially apparent to those deep thinkers who are not afraid to acknowledge when they are experiencing this.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 09:03:19 pm by Negative One »
He [Arthur Schopenhauer] has been the most radical of all troublemakers. He was defiant. ~ (Marcuse?)

"Learning math is never a waste of time." ~ Ivan Savov

"Programming is understanding."  ~ Kristen Nygaard


gorticide

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 3025
  • Cyclothymic Layabout
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 08:12:17 pm »
I have felt a not-so-intense but constant anguish and misery throughout the day.  There does not seem to be any reason in particular.  I have only smoked a few cigarettes all day, and during each "smoking" I was fully aware of this mood, this funk, I have been in all day.

Getting through days such as this must be considered a kind of life skill.

Maybe if I were living totally alone, I might find myself in tears for no apparent reason.  Maybe I might succumb to inebriation.

The thing is, we each do have to endure our own existence alone.  Maybe many might be ashamed to admit they feel miserable for no apparent reason.   It is creepy how difficult it is to express this miserable feeling.  It is as though there is a point one reaches where it just doesn't seem worth the effort it takes to articulate.   Moreover, who reallly cares?

Well, that is the power of becoming a diarist.  You do not have to write for others.  You do not have to keep the interest of an audience.  Writing then becomes simply an alternative to suicide.   It is a coming around to certain conclusions.

There will be times when one is so miserable, that it may be impossible to focus on what you would like to focus on. 

Days such as this, when in a funk, I might watch a couple videos on zootube, but I find that this can actually make the misery more intense.   And so I pace.   I try to focus.   I do not deny the misery, and I wait for the misery to transform into a kind of resignation. 

I did not force myself to eat today.  The culture I was born into does not have any traditional practices like "fasting."   If we go without eating food, this is considered a sign of clinical depression.    Tonight, by 10PM, I think I will force down a couple fried eggs on some rice.

I know that these things I write are not of great interest to anyone, but I am continuing to use this message board as a kind of "diary" for when I just need to "write to myself."   If anyone else has something to add, feel free to do so, but do not feel obligated. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 10:53:52 am by Miserable Mike »
He [Arthur Schopenhauer] has been the most radical of all troublemakers. He was defiant. ~ (Marcuse?)

"Learning math is never a waste of time." ~ Ivan Savov

"Programming is understanding."  ~ Kristen Nygaard

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 2492
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist

My mother is very similar  to that of Schopenhauer's. She  would like  me  to  marry just   so  she could keep up  with the Joneses.While outwardly she  acts like a pious  hindu woman she keeps pestering me  with comments like"as you are an only  child   you MUST marry.If you had siblings things might have been different. My father is a bit better though.

Yes  is a  hindu  woman,sure.But not the Upanishadic kind, but of the  right  wing  variety.

She has  no idea how  easy it is  for  me  to  let  go of this life.That I  have been preparing for such a moment for more than a  decade  now.
I won't mind. I have just started getting hang of maths a little  bit.  If I live,I will comprehend it some more,if  not,well,never mind.

I  may  not  have  a lot  of principles and I am not a very kind man. But  I do have one  -no matter   the  amount of hardships  I am forced to endure,never would  I force  another  creature to get  tortured so.Yes, I  think  this principle of mine is  not  up  for negotiations. I am in my early  thirties. Almost  half of my life( if I live to  be 60)  is over. With Schopenhauer I  say,what happens  to  me personally is secondary.What  I  think,what I write is what really matters.

You,Herr Kaspar, are ,to be  it bluntly,my hero. You are  the  teacher  I was searching for  since I was about  13. What I say here  on  this message board,Herr Kaspar,what I write here, that  is my real life.Not the time I spend  as  a wage  slave.

Holden is my real name,the other name is just that of the wage slave.


https://youtu.be/GZbHKTBpXA0
I am just a sad little green  tortoise  who crawls and crawls..

gorticide

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 3025
  • Cyclothymic Layabout
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2019, 07:07:30 pm »
I sure don't feel very heroic, Holden, but I am honored that you see me as such. 

I have been observing my appetite lately.  I have been hungry but with no motivation to eat food.  I was able to get down some fresh baby spinach fried in olive oil with chunks of garlic.  I was able to get down some prunes.

Mind you, I am not ill.   Maybe the body wants to "fast" but since I remain unschooled about such practices, I do not know how to listen to my own body.  Well, I do listen to it, but when I don't eat, I feel very strange.    Isn't it something the situation we are in - having to eat food.  Our bodies are really a constant buden to us.

Your reasons for not wanting to reproduce (or marry) show wisdom and thoughtfulfulness.  You do not wish to take part in the process of creating another sentient feeling creature very similar to yourself who would have this constant want and need imposed upon him or her.

I think that if you repeatedly confide in your mother about these reasons, she will have no choice but to accept that you are under no obligation to provide your parents with grandchildren.

I am fortunate that neither of my parents harass me over such things.  They know that I have just never been very much of a money-maker, and therefore can see that I would not have had the means to start some kind of family.   Besides that, I think my mother thinks it has to do with "the times we live in," that I am not motivated to bring life into such a world as ours, as it is now; and yet, I have to agree with Thomas Ligotti in his assesment that it has nver been a good time to be born, and there never will be.

Once such an opinion has crystalized, certain conclusions will follow.  The reason why so many passages by Schopenhauer resonate with you is because you feel it in your bones.  It's simply not worth the struggle.

If you reach a point where you just can't take it anymore,  I would hope you would first quit your job rather than take your own life.

In the meantime, I cannot advise you to quit your job.   Although you refer to me as a kind of teacher, I am certainly no guru, guide, nor some kind of Oracle.

You say I have helped you.  Maybe it is simply the fact that you see in me an honest and fairly intelligent man who is just getting by in this life, who is just barely able to endure himself.  You see that I am not some kind of drama-king.  I've just developed this habit of not masking the way I really feel about life.

Should you live into your fifties, by then, your parents and other relatives will no longer urge you to marry and reproduce.  You will have made your point by then.

Please take care of yourself and know that, as alone as you feel, you are surely not alone.   You know, even in the animal kingdom, there are plenty of antinatalists.   Sure, think about it.  Not all specimens reproduce.

The problem I see, especially with the nature of the demands your mother keeps making, is that, as you suggest, this strong desire for grandchildren (and daughter-in-law) may sadly represent some kind of commodity.   In other words, pictures to show?   Life is not a peep show.   Witness the masses posting photos on the Internet all over the developed world.  Many people believe their own lies.   They believe their own narratives, the stories they tell themselves. 

In the meantime, you and I both know (FOR A FACT) that moment-by-moment existence in the here-and-now present is an endless state of discomfort anxiety.   Point blank.

At least we know that we have our hands full just enduring the burden of our own individual existence.  We do not believe the Great Big Lies, the really big lies about "what is the nature of our existence."

We are told that we are here to reproduce ourselves.  Does this make any sense?

We find ourselves on a runaway train with no one at the helm, and the great big lie is that "we must survive."

We do not need to survive.  We are trapped in some kind of cycle.  I do not claim to have some kind of secret insight into the nature of our predicament, but I promise I would try to be as honest as possible concerning my own observations.

Thanks Holden.  I am glad you have found this message board to be a place you might exist as a mental entity.

I'm still in kind of a funk.   

Signing off,

Whatever My Name Is, it just doesn't matter.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 07:13:37 pm by Miserable Mike »
He [Arthur Schopenhauer] has been the most radical of all troublemakers. He was defiant. ~ (Marcuse?)

"Learning math is never a waste of time." ~ Ivan Savov

"Programming is understanding."  ~ Kristen Nygaard

gorticide

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 3025
  • Cyclothymic Layabout
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2019, 10:01:40 pm »
When I was an early teen, maybe 10, maybe 12, my Great Grandmother, while sitting close by me, declared to the adults in the room, "I would not blame a young man for not wanting to marry and start a family in a world such as this."

That statement resonated with me.   She was the Arthur Schopenhauer of my earliest moments of consciousness as a "literate" [MENTAL=soul] entity.  As soon as I could learn to write cursive, I began a long exchange of letters to (and from) my paternal/paternal great grandmother.  I treasured her cursive written letters.  She was delighted the cursive written letters I sent to her, even when my teenage-world fell into a whirlwind of chaos, parents divorced and sleeping with other partners, sister pregnant giving birth to nephew shortly after parents' divorce, the letters I sent began to have to be restrained, if not altogether censored; and yet, the passion for honest written word must have compelled me to convey the pain and anguish and despair my world had become.   The big secret may have been concealing the state of my sister, but I had to convey to her somehow that my sister was in some kind of danger, being on the outs with both [divorced] parents and having to stay with the mother of the father of the child [my nephew].

She was old ever since I knew her, and she was older still at 100 when she passed (she outlived her son, my paternal grandfather). 

She was quite grouchy, but always tender with me.  When I was a very young child, great grandmother would put my head on her lap and put me to sleep by rubbing her old wrinkled thumb ever so gently and slowly on the top of my forehead.   As I aged I learned of the great grandfather I had never met, the man named Hentrich (or Heinrich) who had ended his life in the manner similar to the author of A Confederacy of Dunces, John Kennedy Toole, attaching a hose from the exhaust of his personal automobile and putting the hose through a window closed as much as can be expected.   For my recent ancestor, it took place in a closed garage.  My father was only ten years old at the time, and he worshipped his grandfather (who came from a mysterious place called "Germany," spoke with peculiar accent, and tried to teach him words which were far too long and confusing for my father to learn). 

For the author JK Toole, by the way,  his vehicle was left running outdoors on the side of an old dirt road where he consciously took his final nap.

So,

My father never picked up on the German from his grandparents frequent arguments, and always complained that the words were too long.  Neither of his parents spoke much German either.  Generally, way back when, it was discouraged for "German-speaking" 'citizens of the United States of America' to teach their decsendants the German language.  There was great effort and propaganda to Englisize those with Germanic heritage.   I learned this, not through formal education, but through reading Kurt Vonnegut Jr, novels as an angry and troubled young man.  It was verfied later in life during a homeless spell and many trips to a library through John Taylor Gatto's The Underground History of [American] Education.) And so it goes.   ;)

So, I'm not too sure how much a part my great grandmother played in my mysterious great father's apparant suicide (to put it so bluntly - if there are ghosts and spooky presences not visible to the living senses of organic life, forgive my abysmal ignorance if my assessment is offensive.)  I know thast financial agony was at the root, supposedly, from what I was able to pick up throughout my life through infrequent mention of this man, the grandfather my father cherished as a child, but who would vanish from the stage of life rapidly before his eyes.

Well, at least, were I to vanish into the void { }, there would be no mourning grand children or abandoned wife.   I never spoke to my paternal grandfather EVER about this subject (of his father).  It would have been considered HUGELY impolite to inquire.   I liked my paternal grandfather better than my maternal grandfather.   Both were scientific types, but my paternal grandfather, having been an only child, seem a bit more shy and reserved, where as I perceived my maternal grandfather as a bit more mischeivious and somewhat arrogant, but always trying to be funny (except on Christmas Day when he was bed-ridden over memories of his own father's death on a Christmas Day when he was just 12.)

Oh well, let he who is not a selfish animal cast the first handful of their own poop skillfully into the eye (?) of he or she who offends thee.

What I mean to say is that when I ramble on like this in free-style diaristic fashion [like diarrhea?], I am not seriously judging any of my elders' personality traits, just making what I think are honest observations and reflections ... blah, blah, blah

The main point was this:  When I was an early teen, maybe 10, maybe 12, my Great Grandmother, while sitting close by me, declared to the adults in the room, "I would not blame a young man for not wanting to marry and start a family in a world such as this."

I feel I had her blessing to resign from our species.  It's the only rationally and emotively correct thing to do.

Amen.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 10:42:46 pm by Miserable Mike »
He [Arthur Schopenhauer] has been the most radical of all troublemakers. He was defiant. ~ (Marcuse?)

"Learning math is never a waste of time." ~ Ivan Savov

"Programming is understanding."  ~ Kristen Nygaard

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 2492
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2019, 02:55:04 pm »
Thanks     for your   response  Herr Kaspar. I really  liked reading  both your  posts.  I  think    its very  important  not to   get tricked by  the appearances but  to  always  keep  "thing-in-itself"   in mind.  Most  people lie not  only  to the others  but  also to themselves.

Existence   is really very  suffocating. There   are so many ways  in  which  so  many  things can  go  wrong.
https://youtu.be/-ERFBg2Uh1c
I am just a sad little green  tortoise  who crawls and crawls..

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 2492
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 03:41:27 am »
The point is not that one needs   to  accept   Schopenhauer's conclusions. One only needs to accept  his premises.The  conclusions    follow  on their own.If the world indeed    is  the Will(  and I   do   think  that is so),then  the  chaos    and the misery I see  all around  me starts to make sense  all  of a sudden.

It all becomes very clear indeed.
I am just a sad little green  tortoise  who crawls and crawls..

Silenus

  • Philosopher of the Void
  • Posts: 134
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 07:37:10 am »
I agree, Holden. Maybe asceticism works for some. I can't say I'd ever be an all-out asectic, but I do try to base my life and conduct more upon what I REJECT than what I AFFIRM.

But yes, the Will as an agreeable concept stands true for me personally.
"We — free spirits — vagabonds of the idea — atheists of solitude — demons of the unseen desert.

We — luminous monsters of the night — we have already gone to the peaks."

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 2492
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Pretty girls make graves-( For Mr.Silenus)
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2019, 03:25:56 pm »
Mr.Silenus,

I would like to share the following with you-
But on top of all that, the feelings about Princess, I'd also gone through an entire year of celibacy based on my feeling that lust was the direct cause of birth which was the direct cause of suffering and death and I had really no lie come to a point where I regarded lust as offensive and even cruel. "Pretty girls make graves," was my saying, whenever I'd had to turn my head around involuntarily to stare at the pretties of Indian Mexico.

- Jack Kerouac
I am just a sad little green  tortoise  who crawls and crawls..

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 2492
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 07:12:49 pm »
Herr  Kaspar,

Your once  wrote that  at one point of time you wanted  to joined the priesthood of  the Catholic  church.Why did you want to do  that and then, whey did you later change your mind?

Thanks!



I am just a sad little green  tortoise  who crawls and crawls..

Silenus

  • Philosopher of the Void
  • Posts: 134
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 08:13:36 pm »
Thanks for sharing Holden. I used to sympathize with Jack Kerouac's writing a few years ago: the general confusion of life and living, the interest in Buddhism and the conflicts between rigid solitude and hedonism. I have The Dharma Bums and Some of the Dharma in my book collection.

Safe to say I have moved on, although sometimes I wonder why he had a child; if it was by choice or by natural motivation. Oh well...

As an aside, I have more respect for the "Beatniks" than I ever would for the "Hippies." While groups, movements and tribes do leave a bitter taste in my mouth, it seems as if the "Beatniks" at least were not afraid to notice and record the sufferings, misery, and sadness of the world, unlike the "flower children" with their own hopes and faith in their "fellow man" (exception being some protests and tax resistance).
"We — free spirits — vagabonds of the idea — atheists of solitude — demons of the unseen desert.

We — luminous monsters of the night — we have already gone to the peaks."

gorticide

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 3025
  • Cyclothymic Layabout
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 05:59:53 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxVkAhto0Ag

It feels like hatred.  The Will to live, or, I should say, the desire for peace or a minimal degree of satisfaction, which is repeatedly mocked by the unfolding reality, is torment-in-itself.

All children who scream, "I hate this life!"

They express the essence of our shared human condition.   Those who deny their inherent dissatisfaction, the rage and hatred that may erupt in an instant, out of nowhere, are no less vulnerable to the "House of Cards" effect our Holden speaks of.

Yes, it's all a house of cards that can come tumbling down the instant we lose our composure, when the will bumps up against some kind of obstacle, any kind of obstacle.  In other words, CONSTANTLY, repeatedly ...

How is it everyone is not locked away in a psychiatric ward?    They don't have enough rooms!!  That's why.

I just had a thought that may be "common sense" to most, but it was quite a revelation to me.   Maybe this hatred and anger and frustration that comes out of nowhere, this male PMS or this Post Traumatic Slave Disorder, is built into our animal body.  This powerful emotion of hatred might be a component that was necessary in order for our ancestors to kill another living animal for sustenance.   I don't know.

I cried a few angry tears of frustration today and, upon reflection, think that maybe I experienced a nervous breakdown this morning without even knowing what was happening.

I was replacing an inner lever-handle of a storm door, and I became quite agitated when I ran into trouble detaching the old three inch 5/16 spindle.  I ended up tracking down a hack saw, but before that, I went ape-shiit on the thing, at one point hammering my left hand knuckle.

Furious within myself, with no outside provocation.   A self-contained madness-in-itself, the furious tormented demonic clown, I.    Too overwhelmed with my own condition, I must forget about any delusions about any Bodhisattvic inclinations.    No, I will be tormented with all my brothers and sisters of suffering in this cruel joke called life.  We will be united in our common hatred for our own miserable predicament; but we will not be able to help anyone else, since even the Bodhisattvas are at their wits end with their inner misery!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Tdik6p8XI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCiAYmhJJ70
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 07:22:14 pm by H »
He [Arthur Schopenhauer] has been the most radical of all troublemakers. He was defiant. ~ (Marcuse?)

"Learning math is never a waste of time." ~ Ivan Savov

"Programming is understanding."  ~ Kristen Nygaard

Silenus

  • Philosopher of the Void
  • Posts: 134
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2019, 08:29:16 pm »
I'm waiting for the bus right now; working some overnight shifts this week. As I was smoking a cigarette a baby bird came close to me. It has yet to develop the ability to fly.

The nests that these birds make are high in the overhang above this parking loop of the hospital. I wonder how it got down here. It is calling out, maybe in hunger, maybe for it's mother, who knows.

And I realize that no matter how young or old we are, we are just like this baby bird. Cast out into nature, thrown into the menace. No matter how long we have been alive, the point is it is always too early, and yet it is always too late. We are never ready for what is coming.

As Raul says, the damage has been done.
"We — free spirits — vagabonds of the idea — atheists of solitude — demons of the unseen desert.

We — luminous monsters of the night — we have already gone to the peaks."

raul

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 1057
Re: Anguish Tabulator
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2019, 08:46:59 am »
Silenus,

Thank you for sharing Bruno de Filippis΄work. I quote some words: “our dear civilization of which we are so proud. We have abandoned the free and happy life of the forests for this horrendous moral and material slavery. And we are maniacs, neurasthenics, suicides. Why should I care that civilization has given humanity wings to fly so that it can bomb cities, why should I care if I know every star in the sky or every river on earth?”

I hope you keep all your words in a sort of notebook. I am sure many others will read them as much as I read them here.

Stay safe.