Author Topic: Depression Tabulator  (Read 1255 times)

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Nation of One

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Depression Tabulator
« on: January 27, 2019, 10:31:05 pm »
This may seem goofy or maybe it will turn out to be depressingly redundant, but I want to start a simple thread where the idea is just to post something equivalent to checking a box (with general time of day:  morning, afternoon, evening, middle of the night, etc when you are feeling depressed with maybe even a short description such as sad, bored, the doldrums, ennui, tired, lazy, lethargic ...)

 - and also, if possible, a later post stating when and under what circumstance the depression lifted, even if only slightly.

The posts do not have to be long.

Even just an "X" will suffice.

I am just curious.  I wonder if there may be some kind of pattern.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 12:14:34 am by Kaspar the Jaded »
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Silenus

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 10:30:09 am »
Thank you for this thread. If anything I'll be logging these states for my own contemplation.

X -  10:30 am - Heavy ennui.

X - 4:50 pm Feeling cut by a double-edged sword of futility. 28 days sober but every which way is a trap. Facing reality sober is rotten and unbearable; yet, the knowledge that my drinking only adds to the rottenness keeps me at bay. I have felt a preference for death before lying down for sleep and upon waking every day.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 04:54:58 pm by Silenus »

"And the strict master Death bids them dance."

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 09:05:36 pm »
X - 0500 hours before eyes open ... tongue feeling gaps where teeth used to be ... feeling like skull of skeleton ... rising with the realization that I am very dependent on electricity for brewing that strong coffee ... grateful but dimly aware of the great illusion of security.

Keep spirits lifted somewhat by telling myself that today is going to be different, that ideas were really going to click in my brain ... [false?] hope of some cathartic breakthroughs in understanding ...

X - 2100 hours: By 9PM I still need a shot of strong black coffee so I can give a few more hours to this futile pursuit of mathematical understanding.

Note to Silenus:  I used to say that it might be better to have a drink than to commit suicide, and I still believe that is true, although I would not encourage you to seek out what may be poisonous to you, nor would I suggest suicide - although, morally, neither committing suicide nor seeking oblivion in alcohol is right or wrong.  It's just that, well, whenever I had been on the verge of jumping from a high place, I would break down in tears, terrified of myself.  There are parts of ourselves (what Schopenhauer calls the Will, what ancient India may have called the brahman, the kernel of the Natural World?) which rebel violently against such extreme self-destruction.  It seems that the creature (and Nature/Will/brahaman) have little defense against slow self destruction via alcohol and other substances.  I sincerely do not blame anyone for wishing to "take the edge off" with a drink; but, there is a good chance cannabis is safer in the long run.

I will [try to] refrain from giving advice or commenting too much, as I would prefer to allow us to use the Tabulator just to record the brute facts without worrying about how others might interpret it.

Oh, and just, for myself, so that I might recognize patterns in the cycles of moods:  I find I become discouraged when I contemplate upon just how little I have grasped over a lifetime, but the despair decreases when I come to terms with and accept how little I am likely to understand over a lifetime, and that, for all I know, I am near the end, without even knowing how close death is ... and so, I pretty much know about as much as I ever will right now, and it just is what it is.   Regardless of what I know or don't know, the cold winds can still kill me, I will still become hungry all the time as long as I live, and much of my so-called identity is dependent upon electricity and the artifice of "civilization."

These thoughts are only depressing as long as I hold onto to too much pride.

It's ok to be a pathetic human creature.

X - 2330 hours : Just before midnight, fighting the tendency to feel guilty and depressed over being "work-shy," wondering if I would be more help to my mother if I took some humble employment stocking shelves at a grocery store; but I am afraid that resentments of being someone's mule would drive me to return to the bottle with a vengeance.  I feel that, now more than ever before, allowing myself to study math is the main source of empowerment that motivates me to cherish as much cognitive ability that I can muster.  That is, if not for this intense "studying," I might be inclined to prefer to get numb with that hard liquor.

I sincerely respect my own self-knowledge enough to understand the connection between the demeaning nature of work-place politics and the reactions such environments produce in me.

I am not ashamed to admit that my hypersensitivity makes the day to day politics of wage slavery problematic for me, and I will continue to give more and more toward expenses even as a good chunk of it is towards unfair usurers finance charges (my mother's debt she has gotten from using loans to keep afloat these past decades).

So, there is a certain species of depression that is linked to this sense of "economic impotence," and that seems to kick in right about midnight when I acknowledge that studying mathematics (or philosophy) does not lead to any kind of financial prosperity.   If it were just me alone, I know I would deal with the co-ck-roach infested Section 8 dwelling places in drug-infested houses ... and I would be hard pressed to continue my studies in such places.  Similar to work environments, I am sensitive to my surroundings which can have a depressing affect on me, to the point that alcohol and other substances become an almost necessary medication, where strong coffee and tobacco no longer cut the mustard.

What does not lift depression is the thought of the countless others suffering more severe hardships.  That does not make me cherish my current good luck to be able to study in peace.  No, it kind of makes me feel guilty.  That's the damn "survivor's guilt".  I have made a note of it as there are a diverse array of emotions that may fall under the general term "depression," but discriminating between various shades and types of psychological discomfort may help us to articulate our distress, especially when we find it nearly impossible to pinpoint any specific cause.   We call it "life."  We know this thing we call life is "unpleasant."   Most people without financial resources suspect that having access to more money, or at least just enough money to secure shelter and groceries and pay bills would diminish most of their anxiety.

I'm not so sure about that.  I do know that concerns about not having any savings and depending on the government for sustenance does cause a great deal of distress, and there is a strong tendency for many to wish to alleviate that stress with chemical assistance.

I don't blame anyone for doing so ... But as Silenus has stated, the relief such self-medication offers can be elusive, can make matters worse even.  There comes a time in the night when men go separate ways, when each individual is left to stare into the abyss.  Countless others have passed through this world, and many have chosen to take their own lives for various reasons, maybe for reasons as "small" as anxiety over not being able to afford to live indoors.

For others, it is heartache ... broken hearts and broken dreams.

Fortunately for me, I don't give a lick damn about romance.  I have even come to accept that I may be one of the loonies who requires assistance from the government since I am too sensitive for the work place.  Too temperamental, too sincere, too thoughtful.

I like to think of myself as a basket case, and this is the strength of my sense of humor - for I secretly believe I have a certain strength, paradoxically, in my humility.

Note that writing a lengthy post on this message board replaces a ritual I used to practice for many years, i.e., the writing in a "diary."  This must be counted as a way the depression that strikes at midnight is lifted, even if only ever so slightly.

I prefer this - writing of a kind of "letter" to a small group, to a small think tank of Depressive Realists, or, I should say, Transcendental Depressives, just to add a touch of philosophic humor.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 12:34:43 am by Kaspar the Jaded »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 12:08:25 am »
11  am, 28-01-2019: Felt a great rush of anger and depression because of the  extreme  work pressure  and non-cooperation from the office colleagues.

12 pm,28-01-2019:  Started  to  feel  a little placid for I recalled the  Lovecraftian world all of a sudden.My mind is trying to understand this  world  which is fundamentally  irrational and  in the process, like a typical   Lovecraftioan protagonist,my mind would disintegrate.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 11:44:41 pm »
X - 23:41 : I don't wonder whether anyone has ever committed suicide upon facing the limits of their mental capacity, but how many?

It's deathly cold outdoors, and I am presently warm.  Isn't it so strange how one has to be out of harm's way to even contemplate suicide?   Some may live with a suppressed death wish.  They may wander into the freezing cold with a bottle of hard liquor, "warm their bones" by a fire, and then drift off to death. 

NOTE:  If anyone, even just one registered member, requests that this thread be placed in a private forum, just send me a private message, and it will be so.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 12:00:54 am by Kaspar the Jaded »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 01:27:20 am »
X - - - 12:45 AM  --- not really depressed, but a shift in mood that may have been triggered by the spontaneous viewing of the film, Bohemian Rhapsody.  It was shown for free in a community center where my mom's residence is.  Considering that the band, Queen, was releasing studio records from 1973 to 1991 (when I was 6 to 24), it was quite a nastalgic experience to say the least. 

It had a depressing effect on me.  Well, not really so much depressed as just sad about the nature of life itself, how empty all the rock star glamour is in comparison to the true nature of our lives, of what we experience psychologically and subjectively as reality.   I was reminded of how little I listen to music anymore, but, more so,  just how rapidly this life passes for each of us, in a flash, really.  All the bells and whistles and fanfare on the outside - the so-called real world of society - but in reality, on the inside, heart pumping blood, the intake of animal and plant life, grains, water, etc ... the warming, feeding, sleeping.  Such realities no rock star legend can elude.

Returning to my own little mathworks world was not possible.  I tried to jump back into my groove, but was unable to, possibly due to the conflicting emotions brought on by the film.  In comparison to such an intense, outward directed life of a Seeker of Fame, those called by Fate to be Legends in their time, my own quiet life of being content to make headway finding novelty in some classic old forgotten math books suddenly seems grotesquely boring.   No real passion.  Very cerebral and abstract.  It is what it is.  I consider myself fortunate to be able to maintain enthusiasm, knowing that, in the past, my tendency has been to indulge in alcoholic inebriation and even roam into thin woods to scream at the top of my lungs ... to be some kind of madman in the woods.

I am not complaining.  I am just keeping tabs on shifting emotions and noting what I did that was out of my ordinary routine. 

That was my favorite band as a child, a preteen.  So, the fact that the main character of the film had passed away nearly thrity years ago was shockingly nostalgic for me.   I am whatever it is I am to be, and the depressing thing is that I may be more fortunate than the legendary rock artist, if only in the fact that I am neither ambitious nor talented.  I have nothing to sell to the cheering crowds.  I hide from the crowds and do not wish to entertain anyone, unless, of course, it was just me standing on a stage drinking beer (like Doug Stanhope) and babbling into a microphone.

I am sensitive and defensive.  That is, I am easily offended and insulted - quick to retreat into isolation.

This is reality.  Life is not a party.  Life is not a show that must go on.  What saddens me a little, I think, is that life is so very different from how those seeking fame and fortune portray it to be. 

I understand that artists and musicians serve a valuable function, and I appreciate music.  It's just that, well, there is something very difficult to express that perhaps only the most patient of readers might be able to infer from between the lines of this typed "message," something I am trying to say without actually knowing what it is I am saying.

To behold one's childhood heroes under a microscope with all their faults is not pleasant.  It is called disillusionment.  Schopenhauer was right in saying that our species is pitiable.   Hero worship turns into pity for those you once admired.   It is a sad experience to reach a point in your life where you become your own hero, when you are actually relieved just to be yourself with your own traits, and you find foolish many of the traits, like ambition, which are held in high regard by your contemporaries.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 02:34:09 pm by antihero H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Holden

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 02:41:34 am »
Quote
only the most patient of readers might be able to infer from between the lines of this typed "message," something I am trying to say without actually knowing what it is I am saying.
I wish to be such a reader someday. Though I say so myself, patience is something which I have often possessed.And it  may very well turn out to be the key which will eventually help me to comprehend math better.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2019, 12:21:46 pm »
Yes, Holden, I believe patience as well as an inner-kind of honesty is the key.   You will also want to stubbornly overcome any kind of panic which might ensue upon finding yourself either very confused or feeling that what you are studying is "baby math".   In fact, one must become patient in this very confusion, and be satisfied with little moments of clarity.  Stubbornly refuse to allow academic elitism to deprive you of your mathematical inheritance; that is, don't allow intellectual snobs to bully you into thinking that you are somehow not entitled to ponder, or that you are constitutionally incapable of developing a high degree of mathematical maturity.   Whatever you manage to study, and at whatever pace this life affords you the opportunity to study, this is your own damn business, and you don't need the blessings or the approval of those who fancy themselves the High Priests of Academia. 

Was it Confucious who said, "Rest in confusion."   ?  I'm not sure about who said this, but it must certainly be related to this idea of patience as a necessary trait to develop in your pursuit for comprehension.

Sadly, what is most needed is leisure and "time to think."  There are always distractions and demands pulling from outside oneself.  Life certainly tends to get in the way.  This absurd situation reminds me of the Steppenwolf, how the wolf and man parts are in conflict.

You see, the wolf must live, and the mental life of the man part is not really a priority.

Whatever is the part of you that desires deeper comprehension, this is the part that may not be suited for living actual existence, and yet here we are; and our society's have put to use applied mathematics in their advancing technologies. 

The rich industrialist might find our communications amusing and pathetic, but that is because, as Raul is always reminding us, the rich industrialist tends to see us as the pathetic monkeys we are, en masse.  Perhaps the reason that you value my perspective is that I am an actual living sentient creature in the flesh who has been bold and courageous enough to openly discuss the psychological challenges involved with the unspoken lifelong commitment to the development of one's mathematical comprehension. 

We would surely be engrossed in some interesting conversations were we to find ourselves in the same psychiatric ward for a few weeks together; but then, of course, as usual, we must always exist in our own heads as solitary consciousness.

You have your own ways, and I have my own ways.

For whatever reason, mathematics has got a firm grip on our attention, and it is not something to "cure" with psychiatric medication or "therapy."    ;D

In fact, we do not need to be cured of this desire to comprehend more.  It is not an illness.

I have found that depression and boredom are not great obsticles to this pursuit.  Often, it is just when I am in the grip of the blues, that getting into some mathematics has a calming effect on me.  It is as though I have discovered a secret method of embracing depression and boredom as a means to coming to terms with the unpleasant nature of existence.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 07:47:28 pm by antihero H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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raul

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2019, 02:20:03 pm »
Hentrich,
I saw Bohemian Rhapsody last year but I only saw it because I was invited. In my view it was a sad movie. The Paraguayan TV showed “I want to break free” in 1984.  That was the first time I saw him. I don´t know much about musicians and in this case I was surprised that Freddie Mercury was not British and his family was Zoroastrian by religion.
 
Freddy Mercury was a talented musician. He was gay but that means nothing to me. All these famous artists had disillusionments. Life is like a box of matches, that once you ignite them, the fire goes out fast. As you say, life is not a party and it must not go on. But it will go on. 

Other quotes by Emile Cioran:

“The pessimist has to invent new reasons to exist every day: he is a victim of the meaning of life.”

“Objection to scientific knowledge: this world doesn´t t deserve to be known.”

Drive safely.

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2019, 07:04:21 pm »
“The pessimist has to invent new reasons to exist every day: he is a victim of the meaning of life.”

Raul, this definitely is true for me.  It may sound pathetic to many, but studying math and programming has become my motivation to sustaining my existence.  Also, to stand by my mother as she ages in this world.

No matter how ridiculous it sounds to those who would say, "Get a life!" or "Just kill yourself," as long as this project (studying math and programming) sustains my interest, then each day I can say that am finding a way to endure myself.   Inventing a reason to exist ... None of us can really give too much advice to anyone else about how they might go about ENDURING THEMSELVES.  I once had neighbors (a yound couple with a young child) below me in an apartment complex, during the years when I would blast my stereo very loud while drunk.  The male once told me, in a surprisingly good-natured manner, that, if he had my brain between his ears, he just might commit suicide.   It sounds like an insult, but I sensed he was actually paying me some kind of perverse complement.  He was acknowledging that my mental wiring had been predetermined, and that it was my fate to endure myself.

Once we really let this idea sink into our heads, that each must endure themselves, then we can get down to the business of doing just that, and trying not to make things any harder on ourselves than they have to be.   For me, devotion to math helps a great deal.   In another time of my life, I might need to smoke a powerful herb.

There is no guarantee that this will work tomorrow or the next day, or for how many more years this will be enough to inspire me to do what I must to stay fed and out of harm's way (safe and sound, as you say).  In other words, it is still possible that I will leave this world in the manner of my great grandfather Hentrich.  Maybe it is an ancient custom of my people that has never been formally written down.   The difference with this generation is that I can sayat long last say, "The buck stops here."    :D

It is now quite unlikely that I will be seduced by a young woman in the future.  They are repulsed by me, which suits me just fine since I would not be able to resist their charms were one to take my hand.

Schopenhauer himself tried to woo a 19 year old woman when he was around 40.

I see certain young women on the beach in the summer, and images may sneak into my consciousness throughout the winter.  It is amazing what an impression just a quick glance can make upon the deep subconscious mind.   The short jeans being removed to reveal the tight pink bikini bottoms.   There is a definite cruelty built into our design, that we are subject to these internal drives, these primordial urgings.    In death we will want no more.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 08:00:19 pm by antihero H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2019, 01:58:23 pm »
This band was the Schopenhauer of my childhood.





***  I think I am putting together in my head and heart just why the film, Bohemian Rhapsody, brought me into such a sublime melancholy which has been deepening over the past couple days.   Not only do I remember, at the age of 9 or 10, being under the spell of the song "White Man" written by Brian May, but I also had mixed feelings about the different phases the band was going through between 1980 and 1983, the period of time when my parents were getting divorced, where I chose to stay with my Dad and my sister went with my mother, even though I was "closer" to her and my sister was "closer" to my father.



By the time Queen reunited after a kind of split, I was going through my nervous breakdown phase at the end of high school.   Then there was jail after graduation after an attempted suicide.   I was pleased to discover that while I was going through my personal crises between graduating high school in 1985, the attempted suicide, the incarceration , etc, Queen had released A Kind of Magic, with such a deeply philosophical song as Who Wants to Live Forever?



Soon enough I would find some security and acceptance with the job as maintenance worker for the State Park Service, and there would be the last few albumns released, each quite powerful, before the death of Farrokh Bulsara in 1991.

Sure I followed the solo career of the drummer, Roger Taylor, since I always had the utmost respect for him - and I always felt Brian May harnessed the unique influence of Jimi Hendrix, but just around the corner I was to discover a mind who would make the greatest impression upon me which would influence the rest of my life ...

Here's the big revelation for me in my introspective reflections about why the film left me so melancholy:  It was just about the time of the passing of Farrokh "Freddie" Bulsara "Mercury" that I would begin the intense discovery of the work of Arthur Schopenhauer.   Before this time, I had only read brief essays, but had never tracked down his main work.

So, I never actually made that connection before, just how intense the demarcation was in my transition from "Queen" music to the philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer, and that it coincided with the passing of  Farrokh Bulsara.  Is that unncanny or just eerie and spooky?

 I never noticed the transition.  Only now, nearly 30 years later, am I able to recognize that Schopenhauer replaced the rock band Queen as my "supernatural" guide.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE to SELF: Actually, your paternal grandfather died in January 1991, your obsession with the writings of Arthur Schopenhauer began to intensify at the end of April 1991 (see H-23_1991_cat.pdf page 19), while Farrokh Bulsara breathed his last breath at the end of November of that year.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There.  Now I can try to get back into my math groove.

"I don't wanna die.  Sometimes wish I'd never been born at all ..."

Nothing really matters 
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters to me
Anyway the wind blows ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

These recent emotions, even if they are not very intense and barely making it to the surface of consciousness, force me to distinguish between depression and melancholy.   I welcome these sad feelings.  It's been too long since I have allowed myself to spontaneoulsy feel the drama of this life.

I have often found myself referring to anger as a political emotion and depression as a philosophical emotion.  I will add a third:  melancholy as an aesthetic emotion.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 05:24:39 pm by antihero H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 12:49:30 am »
There is this feeling of utter hopelessness  which often envelopes  me.Mercury was a man of Indian origin,was he  not? I often find myself in stifling atmosphere. The loneliness of a very slow  mathematics student.I feel the  telons  of  hatred everyday.My colleagues ,they come to office ,watch funny videos,talk politics and go home.I  do  my share of work and then theirs  too.Not  to do so would lead to more wrangling.The point to not to feel  so depressed as   to  get rendered immobile.

Can there me a measure of "joy"(not happiness),in suffering,I wonder.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 01:15:53 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2019, 11:31:17 pm »
X - 11:22PM - X frustrating dissatisfaction.  Well-fed.  Plenty of leisure.  All day, math.  Losing the desire to express myself.  It just doesn't seem to matter.   It's no wonder people seek relief in booze and drugs.  No wonder at all.

There comes a point in the day when I just have to stop.  In these moments I can't help but suspect that it may be impossible to be on the same wave length as another human being at the same moment.  One must commune with oneself in the privacy of one's own ruminations. 

« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 12:40:38 am by antihero H »
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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 12:29:51 am »
Quote from: Holden
Can there me a measure of "joy"(not happiness),in suffering,I wonder.

This is a question worthy of deep consideration.  It depends on how we define "suffering."

Simon Grimm:  "It hurts to breathe."

Henry Fool:  "Of course it does."

Maybe it also depends on how we define "joy".

There may be a certain kind of relief in finding that sadness, boredom, and dissatisfaction no longer cause you to panic, that we might find a weird kind of comfort in our familiar "dark place."

Professional comedians may try to make a living off being the comic, but the world is filled with comical antihero misfits such as ourselves, and just being ourselves is like having a front row seat in a Dostoevsky novel.  The novel is inside our own heads, of course.  I would like to make a distinction between the comical persona and the comedian.   I find very few so-called professional comedians very comical.   No, real life characters are often far more comical than those who try to commoditize humor.  They often just read the script written by political hacks pusing some kind of agenda. 



We face our misery and become familiar with our psychological quirks, knowing there are unpleasant feelings within us.  Our humor and joy may come when we least expect it, when we are being most candid, most honest, and, yes, most negative and even unpleasant.

Maybe I have come to find such peace in studying math because it does not require me to be happy or positive.  I want to understand something better, and it makes no sense to compare myself with anyone else.  I'm not sure it is even possible to write anything without the constant awareness that our words require a reader in order to be received, and so much depends on the mood of whoever is doing the reading at the time.

Does it even matter what we write?   Is it all not just so much squeaking?

The kind of joy we might find in suffering would by definition neutralize the suffering, transforming it into something that might no longer qualify as actual suffering.  Maybe if we could just realize that living and breathng is one and the same thing as suffering, we might break through the lies promoted by the phoney society of good looks.

As you hinted in another post, while very attractive women, an older woman, say, like the famous Jennifer Lopez, may look absolutely ravishing, there is most likely a wretched ugliness tormenting her from within, a bitterness, a hostility, a totally phoney air of compassionate emotional maturity.   To know the nature of what it is to be such a woman doesn't take a great deal of imagination.   I would not want to be under her spell or to be obligated to do her bidding.  I would not want to have to live up to her expectations or standards.

Might the kind of joy you seek in the misery of existence be something that lessens bitterness and resentment towards others?   I have heard that the best revenge is to live well.   I suppose living well might bring with it some kind of pleasant experience, no?   What if living well means something more mysterious, like being able to transform our loneliness and our anxiety into a kind of ecstacy?   

Myself, I transform the boredom and apparent drudgery of mathematical computations into a religious rite.

I understand that the only thing that really matters happens on a subjective level, inside the head, and there are no status symbols which can grant one understanding.   A job promotion does note grant one intellectual satisfaction.

Our lives are filled with these contradictions.  Could all society be a great lie?

I have tried to give some thought to your question, and since I currently feel i am losing the desire to express myself, I have taken some care in checking to be sure I am not totally full of shiit. 

Is there joy in hatred?  Can there be joy in suffering?  Can there be joy in loneliness?

Maybe.   If one is lonely in the company of others, there may be a secret joy in facing the fact that you are more content alone in your own company than with others.   In that case, maybe the misery you feel when forced to interact with unpleasant or mean-spirited co-workers, could be turned into joy if you allowed yourself to hate them intensely, and to laugh inside at your silent unspoken curses toward them.

May we embrace our contradictions, especially those contradictions exposed in the words we write.   Such contradictions will remind us that we are living creatures composed of water, blood, vile, and some fairly incredible processes regulating our circulation and breathing.  We are not words.

It's possible that your distinction between joy and happiness, in stating that joy does not mean happiness, is similar to the distinction I find between the comical and the absurd.   You see, there may be nothing at all funny about a true comic.  The authentic comic is not trying to entertain anyone, not trying to make anyone laugh.  The true comic cannot help but find himself ridiculous.  his entire predicament is ridiculous.  Perhaps the kind of animal a human being is comical by nature, jsut in the way we are wired, the way we encounter "the world."   We are at once pathetic and terrified. 

The most terrified band together in groups, gangs, armies, nations - like highly trained insects with the bone structure of our close cousins, the apes and the dogs. 

The most comical are those most aware of what an absurd and ridiculous predicament we are in.  The most comical among us must be the loners, the outcasts, the misfits, those who are not ideal progenitors of the species.

My study of math is an example of the comical, for I have determined that this is the most intelligent manner to pass my days away, not storing away for tomorrow, not working to pay for the coming of impossible to pay hospital bills.   My study of math and programming has zero survival value in a world that could not care less about the contents in one's head unless, of course, the contents are incriminating.

 I won't be able to pay for my own funeral.  So, where do they put such bodies?   I don't really care about that.  I just want to study math.   I don't feel compelled to make myself useful.

What matters is that I like to follow my own agenda.  i don't want to report to any boss or any professor.

This makes me comical, and yes, it makes me a kind of comic; but not a comdeian, you see.   I'm not trying to entertain anyone.

  :-\

I apologize for any typos, and if I write much nonsense.  I am tired.  Maybe I should not write when I am tired, but it seems that, lately, this is the only time I allow myself to express myself, when my mind is too tired to continue with "my agenda".
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 10:12:10 pm by antihero H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Re: Depression Tabulator
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 10:17:30 pm »
One thing I might add is that when I do happen to be deeply engrossed in continuing to learn, even if I am going over similar material again and again, in these moments of deep concentration I am disinclined to hate others or to waste energy criticizing the "celebrity culture."   This, too, is a kind of revenge, when I truly do slip away into my own orbit, undisturbed by the fanfare and hoopla of whatever is being promoted as worthy of the attention of the masses.

Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~