Author Topic: Cosmogonic Discomfort  (Read 559 times)

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Nation of One

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Cosmogonic Discomfort
« on: October 15, 2017, 11:49:10 pm »
Cioran refers to a 'cosmogonic discomfort' arising from the very fact of being born at all.

Cosmic origins are therefore blameworthy.

Life has no purpose.

Nature is not cruel, only pitilessly indifferent. 

This is one of the hardest lessons to learn. 

It is difficult for us to admit that things might neither be good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous - indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose.

(lifted from Colin Feltham's "What's Wrong with Us?")

I think that we may be more forgiving (of ourselves and each other) if we consider the haphazard way in which we have evolved.  Many of our human ailments from lower back pain to hernias, our susceptibility to sinus infections, result directly from the fact that we now walk upright with a body that was shaped over hundreds of thousands of years to walk on all fours.

Our current lifestyles are mismatched with our biological inheritance.

Not only that, but the mismatch between our original environments and contemporary civilization forces many challenges to our mental health.  (Feltham)

There is a certain detached vantage point where the horror aspect of existence is nonetheless fascinating. 

The world is all too real; and yet, at the same time, it is not what it appears to be.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 10:02:18 am by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 07:12:32 am »
Hentrich,
Well put. but you see, Hentrich, you know that most are afraid of the purposelessness of life. That is the reason we have Motherland, God,Church,Work,Family,School,etc. All this is incomprehensible. This lack of purpose does not get into our brain-hardware computer.

We do not want indifference in nature. We want nature to have feelings of love and hatred. Indifference is a much worse.

"It is difficult for us to admit that things might neither be good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous - indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose."
In my limited understanding, I speak of evil because I have realized late that there is something deeply wrong with us. There is a flaw inside us. You see, my father enjoyed hitting me in the head and that probably affected me in the brain circuitry and of course left a trauma. It is a known that children are  more resilient and the trauma that causes them to become abusive can often be alleviated if it is treated early enough. For me there is no treament and so in the future I know that I will  abuse another person which is the result of the violence that was done to me. I will not escape from the vicious cycle. Probably the circumsntances do not trigger a reaction yet.

"I think that we may be more forgiving (of ourselves and each other) if we consider the haphazard way in which we have evolved.  Many of our human ailments from lower back pain to hernias, our susceptibility to sinus infections, result directly from the fact that we now walk upright with a body that was shaped over hundreds of years to walk on all fours."

Yes, we are strange creatures walking on all fours. Walking upright help us look at the sky, grab things, and read and philosophize. All go together. Strange indeed, you see humans need to take Vitaminc C because our bodies are fragile.

"There is a certain detached vantage point where the horror aspect of existence is nonetheless fascinating. 
The world is all too real; and yet, at the same time, it is not what it appears to be."

Once you become detached, it is fascinating. Inside the flux it is difficult to realize all this.

Take care.


Nation of One

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 10:45:45 pm »
I have been entertaining the possibility that our experience of existence, the so-called "human condition" may not be as universal as I have been presuming it to be.   

I used to think that the more we know ourselves the more we understand others and the world in general, but lately I have been considering the possibility that we, including Schopenhauer, might just have a type of personality too sensitive for living in this world, be it the world of human society or the Natural World.

Do you think that those who are "better equipped" may thrive in this world with genuine delight and that our reaction cosmogonic discomfort may be peculiar and not universal?
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 06:09:04 am »
Hentrich,
In my view our discomfort comes from realizing that there is something wrong, deeply wrong with human beings. I do not know how to put it , but there is a stain in our condition. We are born into this sick world of humans, and yet we pretend to be well and also we are commanded to be well.

Our sensitiveness comes from the facts I mentioned. To those who thrive in this world with delight, life is a gift. Sublimation, self deluision, denial and repression are powerful tools to keep us going and make life tolerable in this vale of tears. Reflexive intelligence and sentience do not go together.

Our discomfort is peculiar but in my view, we are a little more honest to ourselves.

Take care and drive safely.

Holden

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 01:13:07 am »
Certainly.I know cancer survivors who are optimists. Go figure.There are different grades of the Will.Part of the reason maybe social conditioning but the roots of the reason as to why a certain man is the way he is, go much deeper than just that.
There are certainly men who look upon life as an unmitigated gift,who say that they are having a jolly good time here. And then of course you have Cioran and the like.
I think the prime reason why we get along so well is that we are very much alike-birds of a feather flock together.Even as regards mathematics ,I do not think we are different. It is just that ,for the present, I am a wage slave. But believe me I am looking for a way out. I may become poorer in the process but will have more leisure on my hands and then perhaps I’d be able to focus on maths better.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 06:11:51 am »
Holden,
We,human beings, are intriguing creatures. As you say there are different grades of the Will. Your example reminds me of a sports commentator who died three years ago. He was very optimistic and did everything he could against his termnal illness but he died like any human being. One of my uncle has a bypass because of his heart condition. He still lives and he is a very optimistic guy. He, like many others, would not understand anything about the human misery. If you told him that bringing babies into this human cemetery called Earth is tragic, he would tell you to get a job, marry a nice girl and settle down. I undertand the way he thinks because he had two sons with his first wife, and then a daughter when he was 54 years old. We need more babies because the old baby is dying.

And the message is clear: Do not get out of the line.

"There are certainly men who look upon life as an unmitigated gift,who say that they are having a jolly good time here. And then of course you have Cioran and the like."
I heard one say that life is a game of the fools and fortunately most meet the requirements. The enemy is inside us and the name is conciousness and the best is not think at all and not pay attention.

" I may become poorer in the process but will have more leisure on my hands and then perhaps I’d be able to focus on maths better."
That is what most fear and that is leisure on their hands. To them doing nothing is more dangerous than shaking hands with a serial killer.

Stay safe.

Holden

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 03:34:55 pm »
Senor Raul,

So,the relative of yours had a baby when he was 52? I reckon by the time the child would grow up and come of age,there is a very high probability that the father would be no more and the child an orphan.

It is all fun and games to them,isn't it?
7 billion and counting and how many more men can the planet support? There must be a definite limit.
Actually,we are the mutants,I think. Herr Hentrich calls such people "Metaphysical Mutants".
When the first husband or wife is dead ,they usually marry again. I have to say that except for Herr Hentrich & you,there is no one who I find is worth talking to.

Misfortune happens frequently.Powerful men do not care about us "commoners". Even Schopenhauer was greatly surprised and hurt that his ideas were being claimed by a doctor in a book,without acknowledging that they belonged to him of course.

Have you heard of Sweeny Todd?

Evil Judge Turpin lusts for the beautiful wife of a London barber  and transports him to Australia for a crime he did not commit. Returning after 15 years and calling himself Sweeney Todd, the now-mad man vows revenge, applying his razor to unlucky customers and shuttling the bodies down to Mrs. Lovett , who uses them in her meat-pie shop. Though many fall to his blade, he will not be satisfied until he slits Turpin's throat.



Such things happen often enough. There will always be Jugde Turpins and thus, Sweeny Todds.
I just want to be a monk-like Herr Hentrich.

https://youtu.be/oMWEqWTgG3k?t=48s






« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 03:36:38 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 03:43:05 pm »
Quote from: Raul
I heard one say that life is a game of the fools and fortunately most meet the requirements. The enemy is inside us and the name is conciousness and the best is not think at all and not pay attention.

I really think this must be the main reason I try to stay focused on math.   It gives this consciousness something to think about other than ... life itself.

It prevents me from becoming obsessively bitter.

I have no ambition and very little shame.

The lifestyle of the so-called successful does not appeal to me.  I am content to be this loser in this game.  If I were ever to wrote a book, I think I would have to speak to an outsider like myself.  I would have to assume this sole reader would be relieved to read the kinds of things I would write about ... going through school grades 1 to 12, getting arrested while homeless, spending some time in jail, taking a lowly position as manual laborer while studying Schopenhauer at night, getting a formal education which I had kind of hoped would lift me out of the life of manual labor, and then, upon finding that nobody wants to hire a balding toothless skinny independent thinker like me, going on a 12-year drinking binge, in and out of county jail and psychiatric hospital, getting evicted from apartment year after year, until I reach the age of 48, at which time I come to the realization that I want to revisit mathematics and programming (and some philosophy and literature), but this time, not to find any kind of employment at all, but just to taste the sweet revenge of living as best as I can without caring about any of the values of mainstream society.

The great realization for me has been that writing how you think and feel becomes much easier once you come to terms with how would be receptive to the kinds of things you will be writing about.

I am not a salvationist - not a Karl Marx who thinks that if we just tweaked the social system or lived in community based societies, our disagreeable temperaments would suddenly become cheerful.

Is it so difficult to face these facts, that we do not like others and that we most likely only just barely endure ourselves.   Liking or loving oneself is not a requirement.

Each of us cannot help but develop a philosophy towards living.  Everyone must have some kind of philosophy.  This is why I use the term Metaphysical Mutants.  I think I got that from Ligotti's The Spectral Link.


Since I don't care about what others think of me and do not share the same values as most, it is perfectly natural for me to become more and more comfortable with the brute fact of being a stranger in a strange land.

Even when I use a search engine to try to zero in on what it is I wish to articulate, to see if anyone else may be writing about something similar, the hits are just nowhere near where my head is at or where I am coming from.   This is the Twilight Zone, when you do a search for "studying math but never want to find a job," and all the results have to do with the same old bullshiit about "which careers require a strong math background" or some shiit like that.

Almost any time I use a search engine, I am dismayed at the commercial, status quo, conformist, corporate flavor of most of the results.

The reason I liked Ira Levin's This Perfect Day was because of the way he presented a society pf conformist positive thinkers and the idea of a being a willfully sick member.

Sick Member = Metaphysical Mutant

The key similarity is having no desire to being cured.  In fact, there is a strong aversion to being cured, like in my early twenties when my sister was concerned that I had "lost my faith".  She just did not get it.  I mean, she did not understand that restoring my faith would represent a huge step backwards to me.

I lean strongly in the direction of a liberating kind of madness where I am free to hold contrary opinions specifically because I am not looking to be liked or accepted. 

There are ways we can flip these scripts.  By embracing one's status as a some kind of metaphysical mutant who experiences deep and constant cosmogonic discomfort, AND by taking the stance that you do not want to be CURED of this discomfort, that you do not envy the well-adjusted cogs in the biological and social machinery, you embrace your fate.

There really is no need to reach out to anyone about any of this, although, i have to admit, I, like Holden, check in at this message board almost daily.  In fact, it is usually the first place I check out.


Sometimes I read something written by some kind of "recruiter for employment services" type  who may do the hiring for some company, and I can feel myself becoming angry in an almost comicla and humorous manner.   I believe I have genuine hatred for the kinds of people who succeed in the corporate world.   Their games are not the kind I would want to be good at playing.

They may judge those who do not compete in their Rat Race Olymics as "losers," but in order to be a loser, you would have to play their game.   If one does not play that game, it is not a matter of losing, but a matter of non-partiticipation and non-cooperation.

Why do I bother articulating any of this?  It is what it is no matter what I type.

I suppose we each will do (or not do) what we will (or not), and we live with the consequences.   

It's just that, reading something like 14 signs that you’re becoming unemployable, I witness just how deep into the Dark Side I have become.   I am a living breathing manifestaion of resistance to this kind of mentality.

This is nothing new.  I have been this way my entire life.   I am not one of thier soldiers, not one of their brown-nosers or go-getters.

I have a bad attitude.

I don't want the things that they want.   No, I do not want to be a good slave!   I am a ruined slave who just wants to study mathematics, mathematically oriented programming, and read some interesting books in the middle of the night.

If I can't sleep, then it's ok since i no longer worry about waking up in time to report to work.

It occurs to me sometimes that the so-called well-adjusted and successful (gainfully employed) have not tasted the kind of liberation that goes along with being unsuited for employment.   There is no way to explain to someone that black is white and white is black, up is down and down is up ...





« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 04:54:29 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 05:25:47 pm »
Holden,
First I will write fast because there is a thunderstom coming and when that happens there is no electricity in this part of the city.

Just a small example that bringing babies is tragic. Three hours ago there was a firefight in a barrio (neighborhood) here in the city. It turns out that a man with his five-year old boy were machine gunned by sicarios while driving. The car received 35 bullets.  The reporters regard this as internal fight between Brazilian drug organizations. One of the reporters said that the boy is going to heaven. He received a bullet in the head and now is in the morgue. Now people will talk about lack of security. They want to keep order in this madhouse!

In the countryside a 73 year-old man and his 12 year-old grandson were kidnapped and a ransom is requested.

Yes, my uncle has a 21 year-old daughter now and her wife is 51. Full **** for him. He is 74 years old now and he is still working although he gets his retirement money. He does not want to stay at home. Two years ago he told me that you must always have something to do. He gave me the example of collecting sand and take it to another place and do that activity all the time because you have to do something. It reminds me of Sysiphus by Camus, lifting the rock endlessly,etc.
For him and most people hard work is a virtue and a blessing to keep yourself enslaved.

The thing is that my uncle is very disappointed with her because two years ago she did not pass the entrance examination to the university. How tragic ! And my other uncle, we call him Uncle Piter, had a daughter and son at 52, in 1992 and 1994. One I overheard him say that it is her son and daughter´s  obligation to help them because the law says so. How sad !

But it is a game, a diabolical game! Well, i forget that this is the beauty of life. If they exist, I would like to be a ghost because they have no body and you do not go to the doctor and you do not have to earn money because you no body either.
But of course the comands are as usual, Work, Buy, Consume and Die. And if you have questions about life, just shut up.

Stay well.   
 

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 07:01:32 pm »
Holden,
"It is all fun and games to them,isn't it?
7 billion and counting and how many more men can the planet support? There must be a definite limit.
Actually,we are the mutants,I think. Herr Hentrich calls such people "Metaphysical Mutants".

Well, couples,in my view, do not really think about the planet when they are having sex. The game of pleasure is the only concern.Impossible to resist the call of human heat; specially in Catholic countries like Paraguay where there is much sexual reppression. But sex is good business here. We have "reservados" or sort of motels near here where the couples pay for and room and have sex. They are busy 24/7 with the clients. Lust of the flesh, Holden, is irresistible. I was advised to have a fuckbody and to use my "element", they said to me that it was sad that I only used it to urinate. What a world !

"Have you heard of Sweeny Todd?"
Yes, I read about the character in Ligotti´s book and before I heard about the movie with Johnny Depp.

Yes, Holden, I want to be a monk too.

I found an article, that you might find worth reading, in mirror.co.uk. with the title "Severely deformed baby born with massive bulging eyes dies as desperate parents waited for miracle to save him."  by Taniya Dutta.
My PC is not working properly and I cannot read it in full.

Take care of yourself there.

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 12:28:27 am »
Hentrich,
"Ladies and Gentlemen says the woman on TV, Michael Hentrich, age fifty has just escaped from New Jersey,where he was held on suspicion of plotting against the government. He is a talented writer and a giften student of mathematics, is under-handicapped and should be regarded as extremely dangerouus." If you see this man, do not - I repeat- do not try to reason with him."
Ever read Harry Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut? These lines, a little changed, are based on what I remember.

The so called successful do not last long, because after some time they are and will replaced by new successful people. The beautiful people. They are expendable too.

"getting arrested while homeless, spending some time in jail, taking a lowly position as manual laborer while studying Schopenhauer at night, getting a formal education which I had kind of hoped would lift me out of the life of manual labor, and then, upon finding that nobody wants to hire a balding toothless skinny independent thinker like me, going on a 12-year drinking binge, in and out of county jail and psychiatric hospital, getting evicted from apartment year after year, until I reach the age of 48, at which time I come to the realization that I want to revisit mathematics and programming (and some philosophy and literature), but this time, not to find any kind of employment at all, but just to taste the sweet revenge of living as best as I can without caring about any of the values of mainstream society."

In the future, there will be people who will read what you have written. That is what I think. Those who reject you will be in time rejected.

"I am not a salvationist - not a Karl Marx who thinks that if we just tweaked the social system or lived in community based societies, our disagreeable temperaments would suddenly become cheerful."
No, our temperaments will never become cheerful. I think that Karl Marx gave the tools to mass murderers like Lenin and Stalin and made this world more hellish. These two fellows carried out a global butchery. Marx who did not like Africans. His own son-in-law Paul Lafargue, Frenchman from Cuba, endured him. Much later Marx´s daughter and Lafargue commited suicide. What a legacy !

"The reason I liked Ira Levin's This Perfect Day was because of the way he presented a society pf conformist positive thinkers and the idea of a being a willfully sick member."

I think we have been already a society of conformist positive thinkers and obedient members the way Vonnegut presents in Harry Bergeron. He said " The year was 2081 and everybody was finally equal. They weren´t only equal before God and the law. They were equal in every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General."

" believe I have genuine hatred for the kinds of people who succeed in the corporate world.   Their games are not the kind I would want to be good at playing.
They may judge those who do not compete in their Rat Race Olymics as "losers," but in order to be a loser, you would have to play their game.   If one does not play that game, it is not a matter of losing, but a matter of non-partiticipation and non-cooperation.

These people may succeed in corporate America, a term I heard George Bush say after the Enron scandal, but in turn they will be swallowed by other predators. You see there are many Patrick Batemans (American Psycho, movie) out there and ready to eat their fellow men alive. It is part of their game.

"I have a bad attitude."
Continue with the bad attitude.

Take care and as usual drive safely.


 



Nation of One

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 10:25:14 am »
Thanks for the encouragement, Raul.  I remember Harry.  There are those who may judge one very harshly if, after studying for many years, he can no longer be content stocking shelves at the grocery store but still wants access to the food on the shelves.

They think someone like me needs to be put in his place and forced to pick up litter along the highways.

There is a masochistic pleasure the conventional take at having the unconventional at their mercy.

Fortunately, for the moment, I am not at the mercy of any mean-spirited little corporate fascist-in-charge.

I am sure there are those who resent me for having been released from the harness.

By the way, I have been doing a little research into the history of "comedy" and satire.  In ancient times, the hero or main protagonist of a comic drama was quite often a slave.   He would be a wise fool.  You know the type, the lowly slave who has more intelligence than the master and those who seek the master's favor.

I will keep you posted in the other thread I started.

I think it may be possible to flip the script in our situations (with a comic attitude).

Quote from: Raul
"I have a bad attitude."
Continue with the bad attitude.
When I look at all the math and programming books I want to go through, not to mention the philosophy and literature, it is quite liberating to curl up in a ball an snooze for half an hour.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 01:48:55 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Cosmogonic Discomfort
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 02:18:29 pm »
Hentrich,
"I am sure there are those who resent me for having been released from the harness."
This resentment happens because you realize the nightmare we are all in. The nightmare called life and that birth is the origin of suffering. Maybe the doctors cut the physical umbilical cord when we come to this world but in the mind we resist to cut the invisible umbilical cords that ties us.
We,humans, try to make this life or existence a beautiful story but it is a miserable story. Unnecessary wretchedness.

"In ancient times, the hero or main protagonist of a comic drama was quite often a slave.   He would be a wise fool.  You know the type, the lowly slave who has more intelligence than the master and those who seek the master's favor."
Yes,the slave in body but not in the mind. But in this human world we are becoming slave both in body and mind. At least the ancients were more honest.
This nightmare will end when we turn into dust.

"When I look at all the math and programming books I want to go through, not to mention the philosophy and literature, it is quite liberating to curl up in a ball an snooze for half an hour."
Yes, take a nap.
Stay well in New Jersey.