Author Topic: Depressive Realism  (Read 3370 times)

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Holden

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Super Multi Orgasms:To Herr Hentrich and Senor Raul
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 10:17:03 am »
To Herr Hentrich and Senor Raul,


Thanks for the links Herr Hentrich, I am familiar with Houellebecq.I read his monograph on Schopenhauer sometime back.You know how Mr.Gary calls us "Cheese Chasers", well,I think that is what we are -we are Orgasm Chasers.
But I have to tell you that reading Kant has indeed helped me in comprehending Schopenhauer better.For about 2 weeks now I have been feeling completely asexual. I do not know if it would last long but I certainly hope it does.It is a good indication of the fact that at least to a certain degree the Will to Life is turning against itself.

When a man is chasing orgasm he feel quite omnipotent. As if he can tackle everything. I have read quite a few books on Schopenhauer & must say that ,like Schopenhauer says himself,  I prefer to read the original works now.Mr. Gary gets a lot of things right and yet he gets a lot of things very wrong too-unlike you and Schopenhauer.


Think about it,here is a little child ,who likes to read comic books the whole day long ,a child who is so afraid of the dark that he clutches  his grandma's skirt even if she takes him to the house's courtyard(did the parents think that they would be giving birth to some sort of Daredevil? Well, if they did, they were wrong.).In the school he fights the bullies to defend himself but is often beaten up as he is smaller,he hates the school. He comes back and goes straight away to his beloved collection of comic books.


As he enters his teens he feels this strange urge rising inside of him-something truly weird and horrible-he never asked for it. He was quite happy and content without it,so why burden him with the libido now?

Everyone is born to be the personification of the libido-does Schopenhauer not say that it is the most concrete manifestation of the Will to Live?
Well,I'm glad to tell you that I have tamed it to a large extent. And now I must keep it that way.
It will make life much easier. I could then focus all my time and strength on aesthetics.

I never want to be born again. Whenever I see a toddler's  hesitant steps I feel like weeping.I curse all the parents of the world.What the heck were they thinking-oh! that is right-they were not thinking at all.


 
 


La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2017, 10:24:36 am »
I began reading Benatar's Predicament last night.  I think it is worth reading.  It helps validate my worldview, and that those who tend to be depressive just happen to be more honest about the world they experience and perceive.  Perhaps those who have a gloomy outlook are simply more intellectually honest and courageous even.

In fact, reading just what I read last night seems to have toughened my mind in some way.

------
I wrote this before your post.  We must have been typing at the same time.

I think you will like this new book by Benatar.

As for the libido, you are most likely on to something there.  As I have said, you seem to be grabbing the bull by the horns.  You want your mental life to surpass the genetically programmed life of the Will.

Just about at the time I was trying to read Kant, back in 1992, I had met a young woman and became very distracted and caught up in the never ending drama, a bad comedy.  I had to put down Kant to read about the G-spot and how to control my ejaculations.  Messy business.

The feeling you get while studying the translations of Kant, circling around and around key concepts such as the ideality of space and time, I think that I enter a similar state of mind while contemplating upon mathematical concepts, the rhyme and the reason of it.   Even some little section of mathematical code can have this kind of beauty.

You are an inner-directed man, Holden.  That's why I think you are also going to return to mathematics again and again throughout your life.  When you are inner-directed, you do not study things for outer-recognition or status, but for purely aesthetic motivations.

Beauty and horror are not mutually exclusive then?

The kind of beauty which excites the passions (the libido, the Will) is altogether different than the beauty of some theorem, proof, or segment of code. 

There is a part of me that still goes GOO-GOO GA-GA over a certain prototype of a woman, but I have no more delusions about where anything might lead.  In fact, for many males, myself included, the libido will lead you directly to a jail cell.  Most women who would excite "my libido" are definitely off limits [NO! NO! BAD DOG!!!]

It is best to overcome it and focus on the mental life.  That you do not dance around this sensitive issue, that you grab this bull by the horns, I think shows how serious the situation is.

The Will, although it is the cause of our existence, is not All Powerful.

It can be overcome in the life of a contemplative, or a contemplative life. 

Quote from: Holden
Mr. Gary gets a lot of things right and yet he gets a lot of things very wrong too-unlike you and Schopenhauer.

Supposedly Schopenhauer was wrong about a few things, possibly even his conception of the Principle of Sufficient Reason.  At least this is the opinion of that Dennis Vanden Auweele you had mentioned.  He seems to think Heidegger had a better grasp of what they are now calling PSR. 

But, like you, I will always be partial and prejudiced in favor of Schopenhauer.  I don't know how he pulled it off, but he did.  He wrote what needed to be written.  If he had been bogged down with computing and calculating, he would not have had the time to formulate his ideas (and opinions).

We work with what we have.

I have been wrong about a great deal of things.  Besides that, my mental state is very much dependent upon whether or not I have "stability" as far as having a residence and the nature of that residence.

Environment plays a huge role in shaping each of our lives and our "mental states".

As the Nazarene said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.  There is something wrong with all of us.  It would not be difficult to point out what might be wrong with Schopenhauer. I refrain from doing so.  I rather like Schopenhauer, as you know.  I'm not going to point out his flaws.  Who doesn't have flaws? 

Alas, he was a human animal.  I'm very glad he spent his life writing and that he got his material published.

As for Gary, I prefer not to comment, but I will anyway.  He is some kind of phenomenon.  I mean, holy shiit, he is listed on Planet Zapffe's ANTI-NATALISM HALL OF FAME right there along with Cioran, Schopenhauer and others!   Gary is on the map.  Good for him.  He has certainly put in the hours.  I would never want to expose myself in such a manner, what, with this world crawling with creeps and those who just love to fuuck with others' lives?

No, what we are doing seems much more sane and logical.  We know better than to try to present our worldview as something that can be sold to the masses or marketed as some kind of "movement".

You're just reading some horror and reading Kant to better understand Schopenhauer; and I'm revisiting high school geometry with plans of spending the next couple of years writing mathematical code having to do with high school "precalculus" math ... rebuilding many wheels as a hobby to pass my days in contemplation upon numbers and mathematical symbols.

And yet, even when I am caught up in working through these exercises, things Schopenhauer wrote come to mind.  When I catch a numerical error just by looking at my diagram, he comes to mind.  I mean, it is true, we can see that our arithmetic is off when looking at a diagram.  We intuit when we have miscalculated.  We have a feel for the neighborhood the result should be in.

Anyway ... even though you would think I have all the time in the world to devote to these mathematics exercises, there is always something that has to be done.  Not only that, but we have access to so very much "information" that, in order to remain focused on anything in particular requires a certain amount of discipline and stubbornness - even thickheadedness and willful ignorance.  I find that I am most delighted and "at ease" when I have to think carefully about a problem one would think would be "easy".  I actually enjoy being humbled!

I am this ape-like creature who finds itself a bit more intelligent than many, but so very slow and dull-witted compared to many others.  i can't help but feel I am just "mentally mediocre".  And, do you know what?   I am ok with this.  Really.  I'm no wizard.

I want to be one of those annoying writers who mentions the not-so-glamorous details of getting through the days. 

While I have great love and respect for Arthur Schopenhauer, I am not like this man.  I am not so ambitious.   I will be proud of myself when I get through these two Geometry text books and move on to the next 5 on the queue.  Currently I live my life as though I were living in some kind of one man mental asylum, and my "treatment" consists in revisiting mathematics as slowly and with as much patience as I can muster, blocking out the "News of the World" - totally detached from politics ... detached in the way a mental patient is detached.   I'm only partly of this world.

Using the most honest language I can muster, considering my sustenance is dependent upon government funds, it is not a far stretch to say that I am contentedly quasi-institutionalized.   :-\

Hide, hide, hide ... behind paranoid eyes.

paranoid eyes
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:06:30 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2017, 02:03:56 pm »
Holden,
Orgams Chasers? I do not know. We are built for orgasm. The path to bringing children. No pleasure, no sex, no children.
I read the that the body is the puppet of the mind.

Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2017, 02:20:35 pm »
A creepy aside:  I went to a Catholic high school, and as freshmen we were required to study some Latin.  The instructor was a "brother" - not a priest, but kind of like a male nun.

Well, he told us young chaps that his idea of "Heaven" was a Never Ending Orgasm.

Really, brother?  Something was not right about his grin.   :-\

Another aside:  Many years later (2013 - 1981 = 13 + 19 = 32), like 3 decades later, I was reading about the current Latin teacher of the same school I had gone to.  He had been arrested for murder.  Evidently, after having developed a bad crack habit, his dealer (or whoever it was that was feeding his cravings) had threatened to reveal to his employers the nature of how he spent his evenings.  Well, he proceeded to stab her to death, which, as you might suspect, was viewed as a far worse offense than drug addiction.

Never Ending High?  Never Ending Orgasm?

What is involved in the experience of orgasm?  Deeeeeeep (but temporary) pleasure.

What is involved in the experience of smoking rock?  Deeeeeep (but temporary) pleasure.

We are vulnerable to addictions because of the way we are wired. 

What Holden is up to, what it appears to be to me, is that he is like a code breaker hacking into the workings of the phenomenal world.   He wants to crack the code so as to, if not deprogram himself, at the very least throw a monkey wrench into the mechanism, in effect, to destroy the Puppet Master.

master of puppets
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2017, 02:55:14 pm »
Hentrich,
I suppose only a few can destroy or overcome the Puppet Master. We are built or programmed, as I said, for orgasms. Nothing new. The problem is repression and it is much worse when you are a part of a "dysfunctional", how psychologists love this term, family. We have dark desires and needs and specially those with sadistic sexual fantasies. Whether we like or not, these people suffer too. And they do everything to satisfy their intense compulsions. The problem is in the human brain.



Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 06:53:21 pm »
Quote from: Raul
We have dark desires and needs and specially those with sadistic sexual fantasies. Whether we like or not, these people suffer too.

I agree that it is difficult to apply moral standards in the face of genetic programming and environmental conditioning. 

I'm not sure if there is a way out of this.

the body electric
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 06:16:14 am »
Hentrich,
You mention South African Professor David Benatar and his new book. Did you finish reading? Did you learn something that you have not learned before? New insights about the misery of our human condition? You have written much about this topic, that maybe a book by Michael Hentrich should be published with a preface by Holden.

But I sometimes I ask myself why must people from all walks of life want things, why must they move, pass and change? Why not doze through life, by the sun in summer and spring, by the fire in winter and autumn?

"I agree that it is difficult to apply moral standards in the face of genetic programming and environmental conditioning. 
I'm not sure if there is a way out of this."

I don´t think there is a way out of this in this killing field called Earth. That is the reason for the original sin. It is attributed to Job these words : “Yet man is born unto trouble as the sparks fly upward.”  I do not know who said "All men are murderers at heart".

In the Middle Ages, the church men believed that aggression and violence were caused by foreign, evil spirits attacking an individual. This is a new century but this thinking has not changed much.
Stay well and drive safely. Go to the eye doctor.


Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 10:36:37 am »
I try to avoid doctors, and my eyes are not bothering me at the moment.  I don't suffer from too many headaches, and even with all the reading and squinting I do, I'm not noticing much blurriness.

I used to think about writing some kind of book, but I have no idea of what the subject would be at this point.

There is something people are calling "man-splaining"  or even "white-splaining".

Since I am a "white male" in the United States, I don't want to delude myself into thinking anyone would actually take anything I write seriously.  nobody wants to know what I think, and they would say, "Why would we listen to anything he has got to say?  He doesn't even have a job, a wife, or kids!"

So, basically, besides the fact that there already exists an abundance of books, I don't really have an audience.

If I were to spend my days trying to organize my thoughts into a book, I would not have time to do what I really want to do, which is to better understand all the math I supposedly already learned, and to write a little code in different programming languages that is focused on the math one uses in secondary school and as an undergraduate student in mathematics-oriented studies.

Thanks to you and Holden, I am able to write my daily thoughts and have the words received by an actual audience.  When I become frustrated and irritated, I am able to express unpleasant sentiments, and I do not have to restrain myself since, at this point, I feel free to just express myself.

These days I mostly work like a monk from the Middle Ages.  I mean, I like to work on exercises with pencil and paper.  I sometimes write some math code as well, but it is all very much for my own use with no attempt to be "user-friendly".

In a certain sense, what you and Holden offer me, by reading what I write (and commenting) allows me to write in a manner that does not have to be "reader-friendly".

Henry Fool said he did not want to be "poked with a stick" or judged by what he has written.  I no longer entertain ideas about organizing my thoughts into some kind of book.

Having said that, one might accuse me of doing nothing with my life, that my life is a total waste.

There is a "spiritual element" to my life these days.  In society's eyes I am a total failure since I never really stayed with any job for long other than the job with the park, and I did "nothing" to justify the government helping to pay for my higher education.  I've turned out to be quite a deadbeat.

And yet, I do not have the responsibility of raising children.  My outlook on life forbids this.  Not only that, but no women have wanted anything to do with me.  So be it!  I have my own agenda.

For a long time I just wanted to drink, smoke herb, and sing, cry, walk in the woods ...

Now my mother needs me to be sober, and I have embraced this as an opportunity to revisit mathematics.  It is not a glamorous life, and I am not trying to make any major breakthroughs.  I don't believe I have that kind of talent or ability.

Basically I am saying, "Fuuck the world.  I don't have to be useful!  I have been diagnosed with some kind of mood disorder, and I will make the most of this situation.  I have an opportunity to revisit mathematics and tinker with programming along the way.  This is how I will get through a life not worth living."

And you know, Raul, it is now clear to me that this is only my particular solution to the problem of how to get through a life not worth living.  I suspect that each individual has to find their own way to get through theirs.  Hence, in a way, we each must write a book to ourselves and store it somewhere.  In the future, it might help someone else.

I sometimes catch myself worrying about how I would react were something to happen to my mother, where she no longer depended upon me to remain coherent and "out of trouble."   Hopefully I am currently developing a way of life which might sustain me throughout this journey. 

There is an awful lot of trouble in this world.  Hitting the books just might prove to be some kind of template others could follow in order to protect themselves from the epidemics of madness engulfing the multitudes.  It might even hold up in the inner cities.  Where is there for one to hide from the madness in the streets?   

The world is a mess.  the only environment left to defend is between our ears.

Take care and be square - avoid the cool ghouls in cesspools.

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“Writing for money and reservation of copyright are, at bottom, the ruin of literature. No one writes anything that is worth writing, unless he writes entirely for the sake of his subject.” ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:13:56 am by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2017, 02:31:01 pm »
Hentrich,
"I used to think about writing some kind of book, but I have no idea of what the subject would be at this point."
I think this blog is already a part of a book. "Thoughts on the Futility of Existence" by Mr.H. would be a title.

""Why would we listen to anything he has got to say?  He doesn't even have a job, a wife, or kids!"
Maybe all these would appeal to many in reading what you say. Of course, many would call you a traitor to the white race,to the flag, you went on a strike in reproduction.

"So, basically, besides the fact that there already exists an abundance of books, I don't really have an audience."
There exists an abundance of books but dealing with these "unpleasant" subjects. Of course what you, Holden and others write are for the serious.
Speaking the truth is always nausating to most. Most wants written words to be like sculptures, made in their image and likeness.

"Having said that, one might accuse me of doing nothing with my life, that my life is a total waste."
What do they know about living in this insane asylum? They will never understand that we,humans, are the problem.

"There is an awful lot of trouble in this world.  Hitting the books just might prove to be some kind of template others could follow in order to protect themselves from the epidemics of madness engulfing the multitudes.  It might even hold up in the inner cities.  Where is there for one to hide from the madness in the streets?   
The world is a mess.  the only environment left to defend is between our ears."
Yes, we live in a nightmare. And the epidemics of madness will continue to grow. Most see only the tip of the iceberg.

Take care, and drive safely.







Holden

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To Senor Raul: Depressive Realism
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2017, 11:20:31 am »
Senor,
They are celebrating Diwali here today-the Hindu Xmas.Bursting cracks all around. Crackers worth millions . Sweets worth millions while millions of the citizens starve to death or die due to malnutrition.Do you like horror stories Senor? I do not like all of them ,just Lovecraftian ones.I loathe Stephen King-what a gort.

Is education very expensive in Paraguay? Tomorrow in the newspapers there would be stories about fireworks and cracker related injuries and accidents -like there are every year but who cares right? God forbid that one should try to stop them from gorging on sweets and bursting crackers. They would freaking crucify that man there and then.

No ,we can change nothing. I am not mesmerised by technology. It is so superficial.
By the way, do you have any idea as to what sort of philosophy they teach in Paraguayan universities? Is it continental or analytical?   
I am sorry to know that you did not go to the hospital for eye check up,but believe me,I know the feeling-one just does not want to bother about anything. I am sorry about all the pain you need to put up with. But tell you what-if Schopenhauer is right,
and I do think he is,then in the very heart of his pessimism might lurk a spark of light.

I feel very confused sometimes, but Schopenhauer gives a great deal of support to me. I mean,think about it,in the final analysis-it is about getting through this life somehow.

By the way, in you life have you ever some across any supernatural phenomenon? I think the whole of our lives are irrational and preternatural.

Keep well and take care of your eyes.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 02:34:56 pm »
Holden,
These words are atributed to U.S. General  George S. Patton : "All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened."
That is the problem, you are an intelligent person. So you feel afraid all the time. Who would blame you? Living in this Island of Dr.Moreau aka Earth certainly makes one afraid all the time.I think that anyone who is not afraid in this world is a sociopath.

I suppose this celebration, Diwali, must be really huge considering where you live. Here people use firecrackers at Christmas and New Year´s Eve and of course liters and liters of alcohol. Then accidents and sometimes deaths by stray bullets. I suppose this kind of festivities are needed to keep people in check. Distraction on a full scale.And let us remember these festivities are occasions where many people meet their future wives and husbands, and nine months later you see the results. These festivities are in a way related to fertility. Of course you know this better than me.

"No ,we can change nothing. I am not mesmerised by technology. It is so superficial."
Well,maybe technology in the field of medicine did change something. In the so called first world most do not die young. That is if you compare with other times in history. Imagine the lifespan of a gladiator in Roman times, and the modern gladiator (soccer player) in our stadiums.
 

"Do you like horror stories Senor? I do not like all of them ,just Lovecraftian ones.I loathe Stephen King-what a gort." Life is already a horror story. I only read the Call of Cthulhu and The Yellow King. Also, I do know how to translate into English by Guy de Maupasant The Horla and others stories. Also five or six stories by Thomas Ligotti and one by H.G. Wells.

Public education is becoming more expensive here because parents have to pay uniforms, books, notebooks, school cooperatives, outings. Of course compared to private it is a little cheaper but if you have many children,there´s the problem. From August,2013 to 2015, some months, I went to the ASA, the American School of Asuncion, one of the most expensive schools here. I helped three teachers with Spanish. There you see wealth. Most of the teachers come from the USA, some from Europe, Canada,too. Some children go with their bodyguards. There are othere private schools, important ones too but not with wealthy parents as I saw in ASA. The fees are between USD 8,000 to 9,000 per year.

Here we have the Faculty of Philosophy in the National University of Asunción and the courses last four years, then you, if you have money, hire a tutor for your thesis, present the subject matter, have it approved by a university board if they like your subject, and you are "Licenciado" later, that is the title. I don´t know if they teach analytical or continental philosophy. Two years ago the students went on strike demanding changes because the female dean and some professors were involved in corruption. Some were dismissed and others are facing judicial processes. We also have the Catholic University where philosophy is taught. There is also a Jesuit school for students of philosophy too.

Do you mean if I have ever seen a ghost or something like that? No,never. I only heard stories like the one I heard from someone who saw a dead lady walking in one of the parks here in Asuncion. She died in an accident near there, they said, and her sould does not rest.
I think human beings are a supernatural phenomenon. Irrational indeed.

I admire how you are able to read vast volumes. But also digest something for your body and mind.
Stay safe. 

Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 11:09:33 pm »
Quote from: Raul
You mention South African Professor David Benatar and his new book. Did you finish reading? Did you learn something that you have not learned before? New insights about the misery of our human condition?

No, I did not finish reading it.  his writing style is very calculated and detailed, so I only read a little at a time.  I never thought there would be so much to read.  At the moment, I am reading a little from several books - a little here, a little there ... some Houellebecq, some Feltham, some Benatar, and others as well.  I am not committed to anything and hardly ever read anything but math or programming books during the long day.  you see, the math is so very time consuming, and as i have said, it keeps me humble.   

I feel I am most authentic when I force myself to stay focused on the math - revisiting the fundamentals.

As far as what Benatar mentions, it is more of the same; and yet, I do appreciate reading his point of view since it is not exactly a popular view.

Whereas Schopenhauer wrote in an almost poetic manner, when asking us to compare the respective pleasure or pain involved in animal existence of one animal eating another alive, Benatar writes the horrific details. 

Consider the following description:

The lioness sinks her scimitar talons into the zebra’s rump.

They rip through the tough hide and anchor deep in the muscle. The startled animal lets out a bellow and its body hits the ground. An instant later the lioness releases her claws from its buttocks and sinks her teeth into the zebra’s throat, choking off the sound of terror. Her canine teeth are long and sharp, but an animal as large as a zebra has a massive neck, with a thick layer of muscle beneath the skin, so although the teeth puncture the hide they are too short to reach any major blood vessels. She must therefore kill the zebra by asphyxiation, clamping her powerful jaws around its trachea (windpipe), cutting off the air to its lungs. It is a slow death ... the zebra’s death throes will last five to six minutes.

Some animals are eaten alive. In the following description, the victim is an adult blue whale:

The beleaguered whale, trailing streams of blood from several wounds, is flanked on either side by three or four individuals. Two more swim ahead and three behind.
A squadron of five killer whales takes turns patrolling under the blue whale’s belly, preventing it from diving. Three more swim over its head, discouraging it from raising its blowhole above the surface, thereby hampering its breathing.  Dominant males lead sorties to rip off slabs of blubber and flesh. They have already shredded its tail flukes.

This continues for over five hours.

This does not look like a world created by a beneficent deity with unbounded knowledge and power. It is credulous to believe that things are not the way they seem and that the world was created by such a being.


Maybe I should wait until I have finished reading a book before posting a link here.  I saw it was on Library Genesis, so I thought Holden might be interested in grabbing it.

By the time 10 or 11 PM rolls around, it always becomes clear to me that I can only get so far with math, but I will continue studying it in this obsessive manner until I burn out or become indifferent and apathetic.  I like to read something having nothing to do with math once I put the texts on the shelves - usually before midnight.

Quote from: Raul
I think this blog is already a part of a book. "Thoughts on the Futility of Existence" by Mr.H. would be a title.

I think you are correct in saying that what we write here is some kind of book, and you and Holden are crucial participants. 

Holden and I had realized that Schopenhauer did not write for the masses, but only for a few who happened to be receptive to his views.

Schopenhauer repeated frequently, "forever reading, never to be read."

It is enough for me to communicate with a couple people.  This is more satisfying than filling page after page with the same old complaints which actually only increase my anxiety.

As for Colin Feltham's What's Wrong with Us?, he quotes Schopenhauer:

Quote
Schopenhauer describes the typical human lifespan in this way:

We begin in the madness of carnal desire and the transport of voluptuousness, we end in the dissolution of all our parts and the musty stench of corpses. And the road from the one to the other goes, in regard to our well-being and enjoyment of life, steadily downhill: happily dreaming childhood, exultant youth, toil-filled years of manhood, infirm and often wretched old age, the torment of the last illness and finally the throes of death .  (Schopenhauer, 1851)

It is tempting to ascribe such attitudes to the gloominess of ‘ old Europe ’ . The contemporary novelist Houellebecq puts it even more starkly and miserably:

Youth was the time for happiness, its only season; young people, leading a lazy, carefree life, partially occupied by scarcely absorbing studies, . . . were the salt of the earth. . . . Later on, having started a family, having entered the adult world, they would be introduced to worry, work, responsibility and the diffi culties of existence; they would have to pay taxes, submit themselves to administrative formalities whilst ceaselessly bearing witness – powerless and shamefilled – to the irreversible degradation of their own bodies. . . . They would have to look after children, . . . feed them, worry about their illnesses, provide the means for their education and their pleasure, . . . they would remain the slaves of their offspring always, the time of joy was well and truly over for them, they would have to continue to suffer until the end, in pain and with increasing health problems, until they were no good for anything. . . . It was a pure and simple holocaust of each generation in favour of the one that replaced it.  (Houellebecq, 2006)


Something he says about literature caught my attention just before I dozed off last night:

Quote from: Colin Feltham
Although poetry, drama and novels are celebrated as among our finest achievements, my own view is that they mesmerize us unhelpfully. Of course, part of the story of humankind is told through literature, sometimes with great poignancy, but this is no longer necessary or helpful. We have increasingly accurate descriptions of and feasible explanations for the human condition, along with clear and urgent implications for action. Literature, like religion, was a necessary encoding of our struggle, but we now neither need it nor are served well by it. Life is entertaining and tragic enough in itself, in its quotidian and chronic anthropathological aspects and in the unspoilt sensuousness and wonder of the natural world. Yet, I think we prefer stories about it rather than experiencing it fully or engaging in serious and necessary changes. This does not mean we should abolish literature, as in some totalitarian political or religious nightmare; rather it is a cry for us to wake up to our real tragedy and to ‘ re-write ’ it transformatively.

Sometimes I hesitate to post something here since I don't want to trouble you with something that might not be worth the trouble reading.

Oh well, thanks for keeping these dialogues going.

Maybe we can just keep track of our conversations here and this will satisfy any longing we might have had to "reach some audience".

And if something happens to us where we are left without such a haven as this message board, well then, whichever one of us is the last, the one left totally alone in this twilight zone horror show of soccer/football/baseball/basketball/hockey arenas; facebook, selfies, nintendo, starbucks, over paid athletes, politicians, shopping mall rats, false religion, the X Factor/Idol/Dancing-with-the-Cars, chart music, etc., - the one who is left might be inspired to gather and organize our conversations.

But not now.  Now I think it is best we just write here when we are able.

To be honest, I would rather spend my days exploring math that I think I "already know" and just see how authentic I can become in my daily existence.

It was almost awful studying such things as an adolescent, the way it was presented, the pressure, the worries about having to register with the military at age 18, the LSD, the nervous breakdowns, the suicidal ideations.

Now that I stand on this ground here in the future of my life, looking back at my experiences over these years, none of the motivations handed to the youth exist for me now.  Now I can approach the material out of genuine interest and also as a kind of revenge against all those who go on and on about "people on government relief with no responsibilities spending their days watching TV and playing video games".

I know that I am much better off exploring mathematics than I would be were i corralled into one of these "outpatient behavioral health clinics" bombarded with positive psychology and group therapy.   Those places cause more psychological and emotional disturbance than they ever "cure".

I suppose this was a rather long response as to why I do not think it is necessary for me to seriously consider some kind of book project.

I would just tell the reader to check out Schopenhauer.  Reading Schopenhauer actually will make your burden lighter, not heavier. 

Also, I find myself more inclined to be in student mode, wanting to learn from others - technical things.  As for how I feel about life, that may be the only thing I would be comfortable writing about.   Everything else is NOTES.

I write and scribble things few would be interested in looking at, and why should I even need anyone to share my interests.  I don't, really.

I am just one of the countless human creatures hiding away in my own little world.

As I say, I appreciate that you and Holden take an interest in what I type.

From my experience, most have no interest whatsoever - and so, why would I bother organizing some kind of book?

You see?   I am free to tinker with mathematics.

The professors of philosophy and psychology and neuroscience can publish their books.  I might even read a few ... but I prefer spending a day with a couple pages from some unappreciated treasure such as Arthur Engel's Exploring Mathematics with your Computer from 1993.

I tinker with math and code.  I have lost interest in any notion of presenting myself as someone worth reading.

No, and again, no.  I am content with my status as an "emotionally disturbed person" in remission.    ;D
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 11:22:10 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2017, 01:56:33 pm »
Hentrich,
Yes,mathematics is a discipline that is very time consuming and that is the way it should be.

"As far as what Benatar mentions, it is more of the same; and yet, I do appreciate reading his point of view since it is not exactly a popular view."
Benatar and the others such Ligotti, Sarah Perry, Caraco,Feltham, and other authors  will not enjoy popularity. Their views are not exactly life affirming and unfortunately our terrible human inertia will only santify joyful lies. As Thomas Ligotti said in an interview : ”They just want to relax and be told a diverting story from a third-person omniscient viewpoint, giving them the sense that they have a movie playing in their mind. I don't blame them in the least."


In their time Schopenahuer and others endured isolation and distrust. It is comprehensible given our human nature.

"the worries about having to register with the military at age 18,"
I thought military service was no longer obligatory in the U.S. in the eighties.

"How I can approach the material out of genuine interest and also as a kind of revenge against all those who go on and on about "people on government relief with no responsibilities spending their days watching TV and playing video games".
Well, you could sell firearms to the Mexican Cartels and make tons of money and "contribute" to the IRS there. That is the meaning of "responsibility" to most. I just wonder in one decade or more when unenployment increases if the authorities are going to tell the youth to stay at home and watch TV.

Is it true that is illegal to give food to homeless people in the U.S.?

Take care.


Creepy Sleepy

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2017, 03:19:47 pm »
Quote from: Raul
"the worries about having to register with the military at age 18,"
I thought military service was no longer obligatory in the U.S. in the eighties.

You still have to register with the selective service if you are between 18 and 25:  Who must register?

Failing to register or comply with the Military Selective Service Act is a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 or a prison term of up to five years, or a combination of both. Also, a person who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same penalties.

Quote from: Raul
Benatar and the others such Ligotti, Sarah Perry, Caraco,Feltham, and other authors  will not enjoy popularity. Their views are not exactly life affirming and unfortunately our terrible human inertia will only santify joyful lies. As Thomas Ligotti said in an interview : ”They just want to relax and be told a diverting story from a third-person omniscient viewpoint, giving them the sense that they have a movie playing in their mind. I don't blame them in the least."

That's why I read the authors I read.  If not me, then who?

Quote from: Raul
I just wonder in one decade or more when unemployment increases if the authorities are going to tell the youth to stay at home and watch TV.

I'm not sure how the government will handle this kind of situation.  Currently the blame is being placed on the individuals rather than the "situational circumstances."   That is, one must be diagnosed with some kind of behavioral, emotional, or mood disorder.  It is most likely very wide spread to the point of appearing as some kind of scandal; but it most likely has much more to do with rising unemployment and peoples' warranted fear of slipping through the cracks, living in the streets, and becoming institutionalized.

My theory is that most the people who end up homeless and chronically addicted to alcohol and street drugs are caught in a vicious cycle, the infamous downward spiral.

I'm not sure what governments can do about this transition.  They may want to invest research into much safer recreational drugs than alcohol.  Huxley had ideas about this "soma".

Not everyone is going to find "salvation" in studying math and computing while resigning from the species.  I mean, many will continue to demand the "right" to reproduce and have the government subsidize the raising of their offspring.   Look what is happening all over the world.

And yet, people will insist that their societies require a future workforce and military personnel.  That's why I totally agree with your assessments about the global plantation where we are farmed.

Quote from: Raul
Is it true that is illegal to give food to homeless people in the U.S.?

Food-Not-Bombs group arrested for feeding homeless, violating Orlando ordinance.

I think the ordinance was against feeding groups larger than 25 people in a public place, but the ordinance was designed specifically for those feeding the homeless. 

Out in Washington (around Seattle) the municipal government seems more homeless-friendly.  I mean, for example, anyone can get a library card.  It was vital to be able to use the Internet when I was seeking to get an apartment through "Section 8" housing.   In New Jersey, one has to have a residence, an address where the library mails you your ID card - which is required to use the Internet or else I think it costs $3 per hour.  Homeless in New Jersey no esta bien.

When I was homeless I would use $3 for two high octane beers.  Hence, the vicious cycle.

Today when I carefully draw a diagram with a compass and straightedge, the Zen-like calm I experience does not make me feel intellectually superior, but just mentally fortunate.  I understand that this calmness is a consequence of a stable living situation and my determination to keep a steady hand and remain coherent.   It would not take much to land me back in the gutter or locked in a cage.

Take care.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 05:04:08 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Depressive Realism
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2017, 12:04:54 am »
I am reading "What is Wrong with Us".Thank you for mentioning it.Very interesting."
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.