Author Topic: A Strange Orbit  (Read 4227 times)

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Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2014, 09:02:10 am »
Most suicides reject their particular circumstances in life.  Their wills are thwarted by rejection.

I guess the only pure form of denying the will to live would be starvation along with not reproducing.

Still, like you, I find this point rather tedious and technical.  Cessation of Being is the final outcome.

Schopenhauer is not infallible.  We all are only guessing, including Schopenhauer.  I read him as some kind of Teacher and consider his views ... I witness the throng of humanity struggling to satisfy their wills ... and the VANITY!  And the suffering inherent in it all, no matter what culture ... Truly mind boggling. 

If there is one thing one has a right to do, that is the right to put an end to their own life ... but when there are those who depend on you, this is ethically problematic.  This may explain why there have been cases where a man or woman kills their dependents before committing the act of suicide.  Society paints these individuals as pathological monsters, when the reality of the real situation might be that they had superior compassion than society.
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 07:05:05 pm »
There is a thread I was "into" back when the previous website got cyber-attacked called Bildungsroman.   Rather than start another thread here, I want to attach it to this thread, "A Strange Orbit."

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Definitions for concepts which will be used on this message board

Source: ask.com/wiki/Thomas_Ligotti

Philosophical fiction refers to works of fiction in which a significant proportion of the work is devoted to a discussion of the sort of questions normally addressed in discursive philosophy. These might include the function and role of society, the purpose of life, ethics or morals, the role of art in human lives, and the role of experience or reason in the development of knowledge. Philosophical fiction works would include the so-called novel of ideas, including a significant proportion of science fiction, utopian and dystopian fiction, and Bildungsroman. The modus operandi seems to be to use a normal story to simply explain difficult and/or dark parts of human life.

A Bildungsroman (German: "formation novel") or coming-of-age story is a literary genre that focuses on the psychological and moral growth of the protagonist from youth to adulthood (coming of age), and in which character change is thus extremely important.

Thomas Ligotti (born July 9, 1953 in Detroit, Michigan) is a contemporary American horror author and reclusive literary cult figure. His writings, while unique in style, have been noted as major continuations of several literary genres – most prominently Lovecraftian horror – and have overall been variously described as works of "philosophical horror", often written as philosophical novels with a "darker" undertone which is similar to gothic fiction.

A cult following is a group of fans who are highly dedicated to a specific area of culture. A film, book, musical artist, television series, or video game, among other things, will be said to have a cult following when it has a small but very passionate fan base.

A recluse is a person who lives in voluntary seclusion from the public and society.

Lovecraftian
horror is a sub-genre of horror fiction which emphasizes the cosmic horror of the unknown (in some cases, unknowable) over gore or other elements of shock, though these may still be present. It is named after American author H. P. Lovecraft (1890–1937).

The hallmark of Lovecraft's work is cosmicism: the sense that ordinary life is a thin shell over a reality which is so alien and abstract in comparison that merely contemplating it would damage the sanity of the ordinary person.

Cosmicism

From Wikipedia (Last modified on 14 October 2012)

Cosmicism is the literary philosophy developed and used by the American writer H. P. Lovecraft in his weird fiction. Lovecraft was a writer of philosophically intense horror stories that involve occult phenomena like astral possession and alien miscegenation, and the themes of his fiction over time contributed to the development of this philosophy.


Principles of cosmicism

The philosophy of cosmicism states that there is no recognizable divine presence, such as a god, in the universe, and that humans are particularly insignificant in the larger scheme of intergalactic existence, and perhaps are just a small species projecting their own mental idolatries onto the vast cosmos, ever susceptible to being wiped from existence at any moment. This also suggested that the majority of undiscerning humanity are creatures with the same significance as insects and plants in a much greater struggle between greater forces which, due to humanity's small, visionless and unimportant nature, it does not recognize.

Perhaps the most prominent theme in cosmicism is the utter insignificance of humanity. Lovecraft believed that "the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists."

Cosmicism shares many characteristics with nihilism, though one important difference is that cosmicism tends to emphasize the inconsequentiality of humanity and its doings, rather than summarily rejecting the possible existence of some higher purpose (or purposes). For example, in Lovecraft's Cthulhu stories, it is not so much the absence of meaning that causes terror for the protagonists as it is their discovery that they have absolutely no power to effect any change in the vast, indifferent, and ultimately incomprehensible universe that surrounds them.

Lovecraft's cosmicism was a result of his complete disdain for all things religious, his feeling of humanity's existential helplessness in the face of what he called the "infinite spaces" opened up by scientific thought, and his belief that humanity was fundamentally at the mercy of the vastness and emptiness of the cosmos.


"Cosmic indifference"

Though cosmicism appears deeply pessimistic, H.P. Lovecraft thought of himself as neither a pessimist nor an optimist but rather an "indifferentist,"a theme expressed in his fiction. In Lovecraft's work, human beings are often subject to powerful beings and other cosmic forces, but these forces are not so much malevolent as they are indifferent toward humanity. This indifference is an important theme in cosmicism. Lovecraft made no bones about being a strong and antireligious atheist; he considered religion not merely false but dangerous to social and political progress.

Lovecraft thus embraced a philosophy of cosmic indifferentism. He believed in a meaningless, mechanical, and uncaring universe that human beings, with their naturally limited faculties, could never fully understand. His viewpoint made no allowance for religious beliefs which could not be supported scientifically. The incomprehensible, cosmic forces of his tales have as little regard for humanity as humans have for insects.

Though hostile to religion, Lovecraft used various "gods" in his stories, particularly the Cthulhu related tales, to expound cosmicism. However, Lovecraft never conceived of them as supernatural; they are merely extraterrestrials who understand and obey a set of natural laws, which to the limited human understanding seem magical. These beings (the Great Old Ones, Outer Gods and others) - though dangerous to humankind - are neither good nor evil, and human notions of morality have no meaning for these beings. Indeed, they exist in cosmic realms beyond human understanding. As a symbol, they represent the kind of universe that Lovecraft believed in, a universe in which humanity is an insignificant blot, fated to come and go, its appearance unnoticed and its passing unmourned.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 10:26:15 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2014, 07:49:10 am »
The spectacle of the shadow(The Will) inside of everything,the all-moving darkness-is so appalling that I am sure I would cease to exist.In some way,I have in fact ceased to exist.Without the interference of  nonsensical dreaming  about the soul & the self one is forced to see things under the aspect of the shadow inside them.And it is wholly appalling,more so than my words could ever tell you.

Everywhere I go I see how the pervasive shadow,is using our world.Because this shadow,this darkness has nothing of its own,no way to exist except as an activating force or energy,whereas we are only bodies,whether organic  or non-organic,human or non-human,makes no difference-they are all simply bodies & nothing but bodies,with no component whatever of a mind or a self or a soul or a god.Hence the shadow ,the darkness uses our world for what it needs to thrive upon.It has nothing except its activating energy,while we are nothing except our bodies.This is why the shadow ,the darkness causes things to be what they would not be & to do what they would not do.

Because without shadow inside them,the all-moving blackness activating them,they would be only what they are-heaps of matter lacking any impulse,any urge to flourish,to succeed in this world.
http://youtu.be/vbs4KezVc_8
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 09:27:10 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2015, 11:00:55 am »
I'm going to re-read the book "The Razor's Edge" by W. Somerset Maugham.

Have you ever read it?  They made a film out of it.  They actually used a comedian to play the lead role, and it is very much a drama.  The film might actually be more enjoyable than the book the way Bill Murray carries it. 

You would like it.

the film
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2015, 11:17:57 am »
Thanks ,I will :)
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2015, 12:02:57 pm »
From the second to last page of The Razor's Edge:

"He is without ambition and he has no desire for fame.  To become anything of a public figure would be deeply distasteful to him, so it may be that he is satisfied to lead his chosen life and be no more than just himself.  He is too modest to set himself up as an example to others.  It may be, he thinks, that a few uncertain souls drawn to him like moths to a candle will be brought in time to share his own glowing belief that ultimate satisfaction can only be found in the life of the spirit, and that by himself, following with selflessness and renunciation the path of perfection, he will serve as well as if he had wrote books or addressed multitudes."
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 11:43:25 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2015, 09:14:39 am »
2013.01.23

Some notes about the author of A Confederacy of Dunces.

 
“He [John Kennedy Toole] committed suicide in 1969 at the age of thirty-two. It was his mother who was responsible for bringing his book to public light, pestering the hell out of Walker Percy, who was teaching at Loyola in 1976, to read it until finally that distinguished author relented. In his foreword to A Confederacy of Dunces, Percy laments the body of work lost to the world of literature with the author’s death, but rejoices 'that this gargantuan tumultuous human tragicomedy is at least made available to a world of readers.'”

Butterfly in the Typewriter was a worthwhile read. I think anyone who is interested in Toole and A Confederacy of Dunces would appreciate this biography.

Quote from: Cory MacLauchlin

David Shields barely restrained himself from a tirade against the monstrosity of New York publishing when he wrote, “One has to believe there was a deliberate effort somewhere in those ivory towers along the northeastern seaboard to keep this book from the reading public. Why? Well, the answer to that would overrun this space and wouldn’t be very pretty to boot.”

… the system of book publishing may serve the interests of a company more so than the interests of readers or the art of literature. The meeting point between art and business has never been easy. Writers such as Toole watched in the late 1960′s, as publishers grew into multimillion dollar corporations and agents became facilitators between writers and editors. And while the filtering process became more rigorous, there emerged an uneasy sense that it didn’t produce higher quality work. Writers and readers grumbled that the publishing industry, in its shift toward big business, might be rejecting works that deserved publication as a valuable cultural product, not just a sellable item created to attract the whims of the mass market.
This silencing is part of why the story of its publication held such interest to readers. It suggests that the presumed cultural role of publishers to deliver quality literature may be compromised by motives of profit and marketability. A solitary writer complaining about publishers, convinced no one appreciates his genius, has few sympathizers. Toole’s heartbreaking life story disables dismissals of those complaints, allowing many readers and writers to feel vindicated in their frustrations and suspicions of the publishing world.

…Granted, there was an undercurrent of Anti-Semitic discourse surrounding the novel at the time. It was suggested that, although not coming from Toole directly, that Gottlieb never accepted the novel on the basis of its representation of Jews, particularly Myrna Minkoff and the Levy’s , characters he felt didn’t work in the novel. While teaching at Hunter College, Toole had witnessed the intense sensitivity toward anything that might be construed as Anti-Semitic. It would not be surprising if Toole felt the Jewish characters were misinterpreted by Gottlieb. Furthermore, in the early 1960′s many of the publishing houses in New York were privately owned by Jewish families.

Thelma harbored suspicions of a Jewish plot to suppress the genius gentile voice of her son. She responded with clearly Anti-Semitic language.

also see scribblings:  H-160 (2013) : The Faustus Phenomenon, Book Three
(82 pages)  {  p58-63, 67-72: analysis of biography on J. K. Toole;   }
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 11:51:09 am by Kaspar Heinrich »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 10:36:18 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit (Toole's Suicide)
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2017, 09:12:36 pm »
You might have to turn the volume up ...

Toole's Suicide
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2020, 06:48:33 pm »
While searching for something I had written related to what I used to refer to, rather sardonically, as Radical Phenomenological Psychoanalysis, I found, among other things, a link to 10 MUST-READ dystopian novels.  The link was off a website by Eric Ganz (of New Jersey), Psych Ward Rodeo.   He had "liked" chapter 8 of DEAD END, A Strong Dose of Madness.


Phenomenological Investigations on The Wayback Machine.

Gorticide's Blog from the Old Original Gortbusters Board

These are linked also from the Matrix (Agent Smith) thread: matrix - mind parasites (Greeting from the Mind of a Loafer)
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2021, 04:20:48 am »
Senor Raul,

I often find you distancing yourself from the "label" - intellectual.  And yet, you are a thinker.   Ed Abbey [nickname:  Alcoholic Ed] is said to have been an anti-intellectual intellectual.  That is, he was an intellectual who resented the phony pretentious and pompous chimpanzees who take positions posturing themselves with false confidence.

I would like to gently remind you of the novel by Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451.

Hear Ray Bradbury’s Classic Sci-Fi Story Fahrenheit 451 as a Radio Drama

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A strange disconnect emerges when we look at the history of Bradbury’s novel as a teaching tool. Although most high school students are presented with freethinking as an ideal, and given cautionary tales of its suppression, their own educations are just as often highly circumscribed by adults who fret about the effects of various bad influences.

The drifters are all former intellectuals.

Rather than deny my intellectuality, I would say that we here are no mere intellectuals, but that we are members of The People who happen to be "former intellectuals,"  "former students," ---- or simply "Thought Criminals" or INTELLECTUAL OUTLAWS.

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Ray Bradbury’s reputation may have been tamed over the decades. He became late in life an avuncular sci-fi master, primarily known as a writer of books for high school students. But at one time, his work—and science fiction in general—were so subversive that the FBI kept close tabs on them.

Who Was Afraid of Ray Bradbury & Science Fiction? The FBI, It Turns Out (1959)
_________________________________________________________

To All Members of these Experiments in INTELLECTUAL HONESTY:

If you could help me with a little research, I would appreciate your input on the significance of this literary attempt to "communicate subversive thoughts" to the current generation of UNBROKEN youth.

Myself, I feel I have manifested as a character in F-451, and I would be Schopenhauer's WORLD as WILL and Representation or Cioran's THE TROUBLE WITH BEING BORN.

I wonder if others might become specific sets of SONGS they have in their bones.

(Such as I DO THE ROCK)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 04:36:37 am by Sticks und Stones »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2021, 03:13:33 pm »
Hentrich,

Thank you for your comments.

Intellectual is a big word and this word does not apply to me.

I say you, Holden,Silenus and others are  thinkers and all the posts all of you have put in this board are helping, as you say, the unbroken youth.

You communicate subversive thoughts they may not find in their environment. This is true specially now where we are being bombarded with propaganda 24/7/365.

Drive carefully.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2021, 07:32:45 pm »
Some good news:

Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 (Modern Critical Interpretations)


Contains essays by Wayne L. Johnson, Donald Watt, William F. Touponce, Susan Spencer, and others discussing the novel as it relates to cultural history.


Also, Fahrenheit 451 (Bloom's Guides) is at Library Genesis

Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: A Strange Orbit
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2021, 07:52:07 am »
I read that book in college.I guess I am drawn to books which depict dystopia because I live in one.

I hope the intensity of your persecution has dwindled and you are feeling better now.



La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~