Author Topic: Gazing into the Abyss  (Read 561 times)

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Kaspar Hauser

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Gazing into the Abyss
« on: June 19, 2020, 08:26:29 pm »
This is one of those posts/threads I am placing here so as to remind myself to check it out as I am curious to know this Mike Lui's perspective.   There is a certain quality in his style that reeks of sincerity.   I am not trying to preach "programming."   I know that enthusiasm for such things can wane, but then wax again through natural curiosity.   I can't imagine being dropped into the woods with a tent and some water.   At this point, I can't be sure if I could even stand myself in isolation in the woods, without books, without the computers, pens, pencils, paper ... I have very little faith in my endurance in such a scenario.    You see, I sense that my very own existence is a problem for me.  I am not so sure I (or even we) are fit to survive too long in the wild, and survival in the city streets seems more of a challenge than in the National Parks, where my nephew is heading for some "serious alone time" --- like the Biblical 40 days ... 

I am losing the shame of not being fit to survive in the Natural World.  As Holden reminds me, none of us choose to be born, and hence do not choose our species, ethnicitiy, nationality, or gender. 

The remainder of this post focuses on Mike Lui's opinion that C++ is not a good first langauge for one to study, and now, with generic programming using templates ("modern C++"), one's exploration of C++ can come in time.  I suppose I "preach" C++, and maybe this Mike Lui has better suggestions for one who is just beginning to consider whether programming might be something that they wish to learn to "do," or even if they just want to be able to read and follow other people's code.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

No TV and No Beer
I came across  Initialization in C++ is Seriously Bonkers while searching for reasons why I was unable to fill a matrix from an { intializer-list  }  ....

Quote from: Mike Lui
I was recently reminded of why I think it’s a bad idea to teach beginners C++. It’s a bad idea because it is an objective mess—albeit a beautiful, twisted, tragic, wondrous mess. Despite the current state of the community, this post is not a polemic against modern C++. This post is partly a follow-up on Simon Brand’s article, Initialization in C++ is bonkers, and partly a message to every student who’s wanted to begin their education by gazing into the abyss.

Suddenly I have this uncontrollable urge to get the hell away from this keyboard and walk out into the night.

(I hope all are getting through their days and nights with a minimal degree of distress.)

« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:33:11 am by Disillusioned Turtle »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

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Kaspar Hauser

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The more I explore and study programming, the more I begin to suspect that one could go insane in the process.   I have read articles about "Techies" in India who end up going off the deep end, exploding in violent tantrums.  I think there is a point where one could easily become overwhelmed, frustrated, and extremely bitter.

Holden has repeatedly reminded me that I am fortunate to be so repulsed by ass-licking competitions.   I would not want to compete with those trying to crawl up their master's ass.  It all makes me ill, mentally fucking ill.

From Mental Health Challenges for Developers Are More Than Just Burnout:

Quote
Due to the intense competition from immigrant programmers coming into the country from India and China, there’s a constant moving needle of “being the best”. The immigrant programmers are often from the best universities in countries with large populations. They are not just smart. But, they are “gifted” intellectually. Often, they are also privileged — born into well-to-do families with unlimited resources for education.

The American programmer has to compete with these “star” programmers from different countries as well as competing with the programmers graduating each year from elite Computer Science programs around the country. When new programming languages are developed, every programmer tries their hands in it. Being the first to do anything in the industry will allow for just a few years of job security.

Life as a programmer quickly becomes imbalanced no matter how hard you try to balance it.

Without a healthy amount of job security, the American programmer learns to mistrust the system. Often, there’s a kind of disillusionment that happens to the programmer in their mid-career when they have seen enough firings, hirings, and turnovers that last a lifetime. This breeds a kind of cynicism in the programmer.

The programmer learns to detach themselves from the surrounding “hostile” environment. This detachment leads to the amplification of certain antisocial traits.

I suppose that even an enthusiastic hobbyist can burn himself out as well.  Fortunately for me, as Silenus has recently reminded us, the main focus is following this indictment against the burden of existence to its conclusion.  The obsession with mathematics and the programming is just a kind of sanity check.   I find some stimulation.  When it doesn't do it for me, I stare into space.   I don't really give a fuck.   

Still, can anyone imagine how many frustrated aspiring programmers or engineers  there are out there?   It's disgusting and repulsive.   Where do they find these ass-lickers willing to work 130 hours per week?

~ Disillusioned Turtle
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:35:31 am by Disillusioned Turtle »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Ibra

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Re: Gazing into the Abyss [Mike Lui]
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 06:19:33 am »
I like how the first article casually lump up "suicide" with other crimes.
Quote
To read the Indian newspapers regularly is to believe the software engineer is the country’s most cursed figure. Almost every edition carries a gruesome story involving a techie accused of homicide, ****, burglary, blackmail, assault, injury, suicide, or another crime.

It is hilarious if I to be accused of suicide.

but whatever, I abhor journalists more than any other humans.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 06:22:23 am by Ibra »
Suffering is the only fruit of human race

Kaspar Hauser

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Gazing into the Abyss: if it codes, it explodes
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2020, 07:37:07 am »
Quote
“TEACHER CHOPS OFF FINGERS OF TECHIE HUSBAND” and “TECHIE DIED AFTER BEING FORCE-FED CYANIDE.” A long-standing journalistic adage says, “If it bleeds, it leads.” In India, if it codes, it explodes.

Maybe it is best that I am such an ambition-less over-the-hill loser. ( diaosi ? )   ;D

NOTE: Though diaosi is a seemingly humorous and playful Internet meme, it is also one that signals young netizens’ disillusionment with the apparent lack of possibilities for upward socio-economic mobility in contemporary China.

This is leading me on an interesting "tangent" ... I will start a different thread for : precariat to explore the psychology of "the loser" social phenomenon.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 08:17:46 am by Disillusioned Dick »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Gazing into the Abyss
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2020, 05:04:10 pm »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: Gazing into the Abyss
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 08:24:59 pm »
A Forced Nonconsensual Crossing Over Into the Abyss

(note to self)


May we lay bare the indifferent background of our cosmological futility.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:37:25 pm by Sticks and Stones »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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If it codes, it explodes
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2021, 08:42:36 am »
In India, if it codes, it explodes.

I remember a professor at Rutgers University of New Brunswick, New Jersey, explaining how he had "burnt out" shortly after graduating as a student of "Computer Science" - and that all he wanted to do was listen to music.   He had learned to hate what once interested him.

I think I may have also burnt out by 2003 at age 36.   That 12-year binge was the long aftermath of the burning out process.

So, when I found myself reinvigorated in 2015, I ran with it, returning to the fundamental mathematical preliminaries in hopes that this would inspire me to go into "code mode," as community college professor Patricia Hynes had called it.   I recall how delighted she had been to witness me in code mode back in 1998.   The learning process was all so exciting to me then.     OK, so, after what amounted to more learning than I experienced in high school or the university, over the past 6 years I may have managed to burn out for a third or fourth time in my life.

... and I wonder if there is yet another second wind coming ...

For me, the only possible way to motivate any interest in coding would be to create programs which perform mathematical operations.

I hope that my ambivalence towards programming and mathematics has not discouraged anyone from exploring these disciplines.   I am not merely non-professional, but actually anti-professional.   While I have no choice but to greatly respect Bjarne Stroustrup, and while I did sincerely get into creating the calculators with his textbook's help (and all those who share their attempts before me), I will not hide my growing resentments towards this "professionalism".

It is my responsibility not to explode.   When I find myself filled with bitterness against those who have never struggled to learn the basics of this craft, it is time to take a break from it.   

For me, only a revival of mathematical delight could motivate me to code.

Fortunately, as a hobbyist I am able to allow myself to just lose interest out of nowhere; but, when this happens to a student who is involved in "formal education," the potential for explosions of frustration are a brute psychological fact, hence, the high suicide rates among tormented students.

We are animal beings who can learn to program computers.  We are not "programmers".
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 01:50:48 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Like the Rumor of the Hidden King
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 02:03:51 pm »
Someday the awareness about your mathematical would traveled throughout the mathematical world... like the rumour of the hidden king...
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.