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Mic True Son

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Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« on: August 10, 2016, 08:25:43 pm »
I went searching with the phrase, "Schopenhauer was no Gauss" as I am interested in this phenomenon of being drawn to mathematics, but finding the details so taxing.

I found nothing where Gauss and Schopenhauer are mentioned simultaneously, but I did find the following:  Goethe and Schopenhauer on Mathematics.

Also, there is chapter 3 of Companion to Schopenhauer, Schopenhauer's Philosophy of Logic and Mathematics by Dale Jacquette ...

I don't know about you, but I do not want to go through life feeling dwarfed by mental giants.  Life is not a competition.  Life is not "pass or fail".  There is no need to be "great".  Someone might assume that he or she who spends a great deal of time studying mathematics must have a great deal of mathematical skill.  Nothing that is so, is so.  Maybe one simply wants to face the void ... of how little they know ... Or, in the case of an actual prisoner or just a figurative prisoner, there may actually be some kind of satisfaction involved in developing skills in algebraic manipulations ...

This is why I am focusing on concentrating on a little mathematical analysis and a minimal amount of programming ... although I retain my rather dismal philosophy of life and a somewhat subversive politics of every day life.

I am not afraid to face the void of my ignorance.

I humbly submit, that whereas my objective is merely to learn some monkey "tricks", Schopenhauer had bigger fish to fry.  Maybe algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus just didn't inspire him.  He was obsessed with making an impression, or, as Henry Fool would say, he wanted to blow a huge hole through this world's idea of itself. 

At a very young age Gauss was able to compute the sum of numbers from 1 to 100 rapidly by deriving a formula and applying it.  We do this today.  We are monkeys performing a trick.

Admittedly, Gauss had a genius for finding such patterns.  I am not trying to mitigate his greatness. 

Perhaps the youth who commit suicide have found these monkey tricks unsatisfying.  They were maybe hoping for something with more emotional depth.

Now, I think we can risk commending ourselves for the balance we seek in our "projects," where we refuse to sacrifice emotional depth for mathematical precision.  And also, even though we go out of our way to praise Schopenhauer, I think we can at least both agree that where we are not afraid to face our ignorance, I do not see Schopenhauer as readily admitting any weaknesses ... If he did, his philosophy of "the genius" would justify it ... as in "the artistic" temperament's dislike of mathematics.   Let's face it.  Mathematics forces us to really think, and the numbers, the sines and the cosines, the methods, strategies, formulas, theorems, proofs ... it can make you want to jump into the ocean and be food for the sharks.   :-\

I like Schopenhauer for pointing this out in a round about way.  If only mathematicians were so honest!

We each have our own peculiar temperaments, and it just may be the case that Schopenhauer lacked the patience and the temperament for an exhaustive study of the mathematics of his era.  My own tendency throughout my life toward drunken and rowdy behavior has also somewhat determined my own fate ... So what.  As I said, this is not a contest.  Schopenhauer was one of a kind, and I am indebted to him for his life's work, for his honest consideration of the deepest of all problems, existence itself.

Now, since there is little I can do about this problem now that I have been born, even as I know it would have been better not to have been born, to spend a day making ever so little progress in the development of mathematical skills seems like a fairly worthwhile pursuit.  I mean, it is best to die soon, I know; but as long as I am sticking around to help my mother as she ages, then why not put all my mental energy into something very time consuming?

Who knows, eventually I may develop calm mannerisms and develop the ability to break down overwhelming problems into smaller ones ...  Eventually, something has to give!

Quote from: Dale Jacquette
Schopenhauer opposes pedantry as a mark of low intelligence in all fields, including as no exception the most abstract efforts to understand the principles of logic and mathematics.

Hence, my suspicion that studying a great deal of mathematics may not be making me any "smarter," which is kind of what I'm after, no?   Could this be the root of our frustration as well as the rejection of such forced pedantry on certain youth who intuitively detect this state of affairs, and lack the confidence that Schopenhauer had which allowed him to come to such anti-authoritarian conclusions?

I am still determined to seek understanding from mathematics textbooks.  I will continue to engage honestly with the exercises as I have done in the past, but I cannot ignore Schopenhauer's views on this most important subject.

Do you remember when I was toying with the title, "Mathematical Technician" ?

When I read, Schopenhauer opposes pedantry as a mark of low intelligence in all fields, including as no exception the most abstract efforts to understand the principles of logic and mathematics, I could not help but shudder at the thought of promoting an ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning.  I just like to figure things out in a humble manner.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 10:10:28 am by {∅} »
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Holden

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Injecting Content into Mathematics
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 11:51:35 am »
First off,I am sorry for not writing sooner,there are days when I get dog- tired from being a slave.

Well,this is what I think:
1.Why Schopenhauer is not a mathematician:

I think if you were born in Germany in the 19th Century in his family-in a world where there was no The World as Will & Representation,
I think you may have written it yourself.You may have devoted your life to philosophy.
You may still have been deeply interested in math like you are now,but you might have preferred to write WWR.

And then if Schopenhauer would have been born in 1967 in your family & would have come across WWR written by you,he would have adored you.But he may have now focussed on mathematics more as you'd have already "fired the big fish".
Look,the reason why I said Schopenhauer had a bigger fish to fry is that at that point of time we really needed someone to write WWR.
But now that it has been written already you are right in focussing more on math.
And even what you have written (as regards philosophy) is in a way an updated version of WWR.
After Schopenhauer,you are the greatest philosopher we've had.(Did Cioran study math?)
Schopenhauer had the bigger fish to fry when WWR had not been written,but now you have the bigger fish to fry i.e. experimenting with math.

About pedantry in math:
Schopenhauer says that math shows us nothing more than mere connections,relations of one idea to another,form devoid of all content.


As its devoid of all content,it becomes difficult for the human intellect to comprehend it..unlike what the pedants would have us believe,
in the past, practical applications have motivated the development of mathematical theories, which then became the subject of study in pure mathematics where abstract concepts are studied for their own sake. The activity of applied mathematics is thus intimately connected with research in pure mathematics,meaning what if we can inject  content into math?

Let me give you an example:

1. Solve for x
x2 - 3|x - 2| - 4x = - 6

2.Two large and 1 small pumps can fill a swimming pool in 4 hours. One large and 3 small pumps can also fill the same swimming pool in 4 hours. How many hours will it take 4 large and 4 small pumps to fill the swimming pool.(We assume that all large pumps are similar and all small pumps are also similar.)


The first problem is devoid of content,I mean its merely an equation,all abstract,in the second problem the human intellect has a better toe-hold.

Do you think this could be a way to make things smoother?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:56:35 am by Holden »
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Mic True Son

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2016, 01:48:59 pm »
I'm sorry you are so beat.  Sometimes it is best to collapse when possible, preferably somewhere cool.  Is it very hot where you are "stationed"?

As for the above examples, I'm not sure if injecting content is desirable in all cases.  Isn't the whole point of abstraction to eliminate particular cases and definite situations so as to deal with x's and y's instead of pools and pumps? 

I've been doing some reading after midnight.  What I read last night might give us food for thought, even though we have full plates of thought-food already.

Quote from: Dale Jacquette

Quote from: Schopenhauer
As mentioned above, our immediate perception of numbers in time does not extend to more than about ten. Beyond this an abstract concept of number, fixed by a word, must take the place of perception; thus perception is no longer actually carried out, but is only quite definitely indicated. Yet even so, through the important expedient of the order of ciphers, enabling larger numbers always to be represented by the same small ones, an intuitive or perceptive evidence of every sum or calculation is made possible, even where so much use is made of abstraction that not only the numbers, but indefinite quantities and whole operations are thought only in the abstract, and are indicated in this respect, such as sqrt( r^( − b ) ), so that they are no longer performed, but only symbolized.    (WWR I, 75 – 76)

The two-level approach to understanding non-geometrical mathematical reasoning suggested by Schopenhauer anticipates a vital distinction in Edmund Husserl’s 1891 treatise, Philosophie der Arithmetik: Psychologische und logische Untersuchungen . Following his teacher Franz Brentano, Husserl differentiates authentic from inauthentic mathematical presentations. Authentic presentations relevant to arithmetical reasoning include manageably small aggregates of things that we can take in perceptually and conceptually at a glance. They feature the most basic intuitions concerning handfuls of easily comprehended things and their augmentations, depletions and divisions into subgroups that can be held in thought without much effort.

Authentic presentations of such basic collectivities and the operations that we can witness perceptually or imagine before the mind’s eye provide the intuitive foundation for all of arithmetic in Husserl’s early philosophy. Where authentic presentations give out at the natural limits of human cognitive abilities, there inauthentic presentations take over for the comparatively more sophisticated superstructure of advanced arithmetic involving numbers too large to comprehend except with the assistance of informative mathematical notations, axiom systems, algorithms and inference mechanisms. Husserl’s two-stage theory of arithmetical knowledge combines an intuitive basis for mathematical judgment in perception like Schopenhauer’s that is consistent with plausible anthropological and developmental psychological assumptions about the origins of caveman arithmetic (|| + ||| = |||||).  At the same time, it avoids the questionable effort to account for more complicated levels of mathematics in terms of immediate sense impressions, where vision, imagination and conceptualization evidently fall short.

Husserl considers the cutoff between authentic and inauthentic arithmetical presentations as belonging somewhere between 8 and 12, with 10 as the normal number of fingers offering a good compromise, precisely as Schopenhauer proposes.  These items in a perceptual totality can still be grasped, considered and manipulated on a small scale in ways that are obviously related to the decimal arithmetical operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. As such, small perceivable aggregates provide the intuitive basis by which Schopenhauer believes it possible to reduce all arithmetic and algebra to counting. They are enough in any case to recover the most fundamental ideas of arithmetic, after which Husserl proposes that we invent notations that support inauthentic presentations of mathematical concepts that are removed from the immediate perception of things by which we are able to work with larger numbers and more complex algebraic operations.

Schopenhauer, unlike Husserl, however, is committed to the thesis that all arithmetic and algebra reduces to elaborate forms of actual counting.  He does not seem to recognize that his concession to mathematical practice working with complex algebraic equations appears greatly at odds with this central theme. He acknowledges the use of such expressions in advanced mathematics, but does not appeal to anything comparable to Husserl’s notion of the perception of mathematical notations themselves as inauthentic presentations that can equally serve as a special syntactical - structural type of perceptual basis for understanding the foundations of more complicated branches and applications of mathematics. Husserl’s philosophy of arithmetic in this respect represents a substantial improvement over Schopenhauer’s. 

Turning from, but without satisfactorily answering, the vital question of how complex algebraic applications of arithmetic can be reduced to counting perceivable objects and perceptions of acts of counting, Schopenhauer instead addresses an important topic in the epistemology of justification in his general theory of mathematical knowledge. He claims that the perceptual evidence supporting mathematics, in contrast with the a posteriori perceptual evidence for empirical knowledge, is a priori . He argues:

Quote from: Schopenhauer
As a result of all this, it is hoped there will be no doubt that the evidence of mathematics, which has become the pattern and symbol of all evidence, rests essentially not on proofs, but on immediate intuition or perception. Here, as everywhere, that is the ultimate ground and source of all truth. Yet the perception forming the basis of mathematics has a great advantage over every other perception, and hence over the empirical. Thus as it is a priori, and consequently independent of experience which is always given only partially and successively, everything is equally near to it, and we can start either from the reason or ground or from the consequent, as we please. Now this endows it with a complete certainty and infallibility, for in it the consequent is known from the ground or reason, and this knowledge alone has necessity.   (WWR I, 76)

According to Schopenhauer, we grasp the ground of a mathematical truth intuitively or "perceptually” a priori . We proceed in reasoning mathematically from the ground or general principle to the consequent, rather than in a posteriori empirical justification, which, on the contrary, advances from consequent to ground. Schopenhauer believes that the greater certainty of the a priori over the a posteriori path to knowledge can be understood in these terms. He declares: “ My opinion is . . . that every error is a conclusion from the consequent to the ground, which indeed is valid when we know that the consequent can have that ground and absolutely no other; otherwise it is not ” (WWR I, 79).

Schopenhauer’s conclusion remains doubtful, since mathematics as a human endeavor offers no guarantee of being error - free, even if the chances of making mistakes at least in elementary mathematics are fewer than in other branches of empirical knowledge.

It surely remains possible, for all that Schopenhauer has to say, to proceed invalidly from the ground to the consequent, and to wrongly understand the ground, misconceiving the ground for something it is not, or grasping an entirely different ground which we take to be germane to the explanation at hand, when in fact it is explanatorily irrelevant.


By the way, I want to mention in passing that sometimes I experiment by trying to do a little algebra in my head, and I have to strongly advise against this.  We, and I will say WE instead of I, speaking for our entire species, make enough mistakes even with paper and pencil and computers.  Doing any kind of mathematics beyond elementary arithmetic in one's head is just asking for trouble.

There is no shame in using pencil and paper (or SAND for that matter).

The reason the above interests me, and the reason I am interested in the what Schopenhauer has to say about even just arithmetic is that he is very vocal about OUR inherent limitations when it comes to "forming representations of mathematical content in our heads".   We have to resort to codification!   

This may have survival value, this inability to hold too much in our consciousness so as to keep our attention primarily for being alert to dangers ... after all, we are in a hostile world where things eat each other for breakfast and the ground opens up and volcanoes erupt and tidal waves, etc.

And for females, there are even worse things to be wary of ... some h-o-r-n-y toad always lurking about trying to stick it in.   :o

Hey, what if doing math is unnatural, something we are not really designed to do?  This would certainly justify my dependency on pencil and paper or sand.  We're not equipped to store too much in our heads at any given moment.

Now, I really should think these things through before blurting them out, but suppose that when we are scribbling down numbers, algebraic symbols, various notation, we are partaking in some unnatural magic?   Hence, the difficulties are to be expected and not viewed as a fault of the student or instructor.

Performing mathematical operations requires effort.  It is not like urinating.

Just a thought.

So why do I enjoy calculating, computing, figuring, manipulating algebraically to solve geometric problems in books designed for college students?  I like going over this stuff.

Like you, I must get some kind of enjoyment out of noticing patterns between equations and curves, as with intercepts, slopes, parallel and perpendicular lines ... Contemplating on the fact that the angles of a triangle add up to pi (180 degrees) still has a calming effect on me.  There is something about this consistency ... I don't know how to put it, but it makes me feel calmer.  To come up with the same results as the author of a textbook shows me that I have understood the material.  This is somehow comforting.

If I am confident enough to prove there is an error in the text, then I really must be understanding the material.  So, even if the codification of mathematical reality into symbols is some kind of freak evolutionary accident, it may be one of the more interesting activities a human being can engage in. 

Maybe that's the real reason the authorities push mathematics on the kids, not as a punishment, but because, in their own stupid authoritarian manner, they sense it is a remarkable thing to pass down to the upcoming generation ... something for them to think about it ...

« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 04:07:16 pm by {∅} »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Holden

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The Math Instinct
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2016, 07:55:15 pm »
Weather here is actually rather pleasant.Its around 86 F most of the time & never below 65 F,no wonder folks are breeding like rats around here.
I can observe the Behavioral Sink right in front of my eyes.I am the rat who liked to hide in his room & read Schopenhauer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

Thanks for the summary of Husserl's math philosophy,very interesting.
Quote
As for the above examples, I'm not sure if injecting content is desirable in all cases.  Isn't the whole point of abstraction to eliminate particular cases and definite situations so as to deal with x's and y's instead of pools and pumps? 

Kant may have said the same thing.
Kant began his investigation into knowledge of perceived objects by considering indirect, reflective knowledge of concepts instead of direct, intuitive knowledge of perceptions.
For Kant, there is absolutely no knowledge of an object unless there is thought which employs abstract concepts. For him, perception is not knowledge because it is not thought.
In accordance with Kant's claim, non-human animals would not be able to know objects. Perception, however, according to Schopenhauer, is intellectual and is a product of the Understanding.
http://www.amazon.in/Math-Instinct-Mathematical-Genius-Lobsters/dp/156025839X/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41DZ2PRN5XL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR106%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=0SMYYMGD8CZ4EB16T3Z4

In this book called the Math Instinct,the author argues that lobsters, Birds, Cats, and Dogs perform math using their perceptions.
Its available on libgen,please do check it out.


If all thought  is taken away from empirical knowledge, no knowledge of any object remains, because nothing can be thought by mere intuition or perception.
On page A253, Kant stated that no knowledge of any object would remain if all thought  was removed from empirical knowledge.
Schopenhauer claimed that perception occurs without conceptual thought.
On page A253, Kant stated that a concept without an intuition is not empty. It still has the form of thought.
Schopenhauer claimed that perceived representations are the content of a concept. Without them, the concept is empty.



Kant asserted that metaphysics is knowledge a priori, or before experience. As a result, he concluded that the source of metaphysics cannot be inner or outer experience.
Schopenhauer claimed that metaphysics must understand inner and outer experience in order to know the world and not empty forms. Kant did not prove that the material for knowing the world is outside of the experience of the world and merely in the forms of knowledge.

Kant tried to create a logical, overly-symmetrical system without reflecting on its contents.

In explaining how objects are experienced, Kant used transcendental arguments. He tried to prove and explain the fundamental principles of knowledge. In so doing, he started by indirectly conceptually reflecting on the conditions that exist in the observing subject that make possible verbal judgments about objective experience.

We shall therefore follow up the pure concepts to their first germs and beginnings in the human understanding...

— A66
In contrast, Schopenhauer's method was to start by a direct examination of perceived objects in experience, not of abstract concepts.

...the solution of the riddle of the world is possible only through the proper connexion of outer with inner experience...

— Appendix p. 428
The fundamental principles of knowledge cannot be transcendentally explained or proved, they can only be immediately, directly known.  Abstract concepts, for Schopenhauer, are not the starting point of knowledge. They are derived from perceptions, which are the source of all knowledge of the objective world.


“a mathematician is someone for whom mathematics is a soap opera.”
― Keith J. Devlin, The Math Gene: How Mathematical Thinking Evolved And Why Numbers Are Like Gossip

In India most of the people don't have English as their first language,but if someone from the US were to come here and observe,he'd find that there are millions of people who speak English fluently,he may surmise that they studied grammar really well in school.
The truth is,they just watch a lot of Hollywood movies.


* Please checkout "The Math Instinct"



« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 09:10:45 pm by Holden »
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Mic True Son

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2016, 09:11:44 pm »
I wonder how Schopenhauer would go about finding the center of a circle inscribed about a triangle where the location of the coordinates of all three vertices are known.

I realize Schopenhauer favored intuition.  Would he use a brute force method with some kind of physical instrument for measuring?   Would he find the center of the chords that way, then draw perpendicular lines from the center of each chord to the center?  Of course, each perpendicular line from the center of each chord (each side of the inscribed triangle) would intersect at the center of the circle.  He would grasp the actual center ... and he would most likely not feel any need to jot down the exact numerical representation of the coordinates of the center of the circle.

While Schopenhauer has been the greatest intellectual influence of my life, and even a kind of spiritual influence as far as promoting compassion for all living things, I would prefer to find the midpoint of each chord with arithmetic, algebra, and well-tested formulas.  I would enjoy finding the slopes of the line segments so as to have the slope of the perpendicular line, so as to "plug in" the perpendicular slope and the midpoint coordinates to come up with the equations for two perpendicular bisectors (of two chords).   Then, solving these two systems I would have the coordinates for the center of the circle.

One method is analytical, whereas measuring directly and placing a mark where the perpendicular bisectors intersect would be utilizing pure intuition. 

I am certain that I possess a far lower intelligence than Schopenhauer (a great understatement), and yet, because I would not trust my intuition, I am comforted by the mental tools presented to us in the formulas passed down to us. 

Quote
In accordance with Kant's claim, non-human animals would not be able to know objects. Perception, however, according to Schopenhauer, is intellectual and is a product of the Understanding

Here I agree with Schopenhauer.  Animals possess understanding.  We inherent all our sensory apparatus from the animal kingdom.

Fortunately for me, I am under no pressure to be "right".

I will quietly and humbly return to my studies in analytic geometry as a form of amusement.  It astounds me that people have the patience to organize textbooks.  Lucky for me, not all human beings are such scatter brains as I am.

We must also keep in mind the tendency of ideas to be passed down through the aristocratic classes, the high society. 

I do not do not want to take them TOO SERIOUSLY ... they were chimpanzee-like creatures just like us, and I am sure there was more than a little monkey business and ego involved ... in the promotion of particular stances.

We are outside all that.

I am currently studying math because there are many gaps in my education.   I really want to study in a different manner than I have in the past.  Kant, Schopenhauer, Husserl ... while I am very interested in what they were talking and writing about, I am not so ambitious.  I would rather focus on the specifics of developing mathematical skills ... since even this is currently stretching my intellect to its limits.  As for the nature of understanding, whether the abstract is grounded on perceptions or not, this is now the realm of cognitive science.

I have mentioned the text, Where Mathematics Comes From, where it is proposed that it all comes from metaphor and therefore our intuitions via perception, as Schopenhauer suggests.

At the moment, this does not really matter to me.

I don't mind if I have to regress to a lower form of intelligence in order to develop mathematical skills.  I am once again obsessed with the mechanics involved.

Note:  I think Schopenhauer would have loved some of these animated gifs.

I have to say, when I perform a calculation, and then draw the geometric representation, my perception (intuition) tells me if there is an error in my calculations, just as Schopenhauer says.  He is right, you know, about intuition and perception having the final say.   

If I am calculating the diagonally opposite vertex of a parallelogram, using the midpoint of the diagonal and one of the vertices, and the coordinates I come up with do not "look right", then I know that something went wrong in my arithmetic.

I don't want to sound like an old man, but I really think it is best to focus on the fundamentals ... so, I will practice what I preach and, for now, will concentrate on lines, circles, conics, polar coordinates, parametric equations ...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 10:48:39 pm by {∅} »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2016, 08:38:38 am »
I have a feeling Schopenhauer would work much more slowly on far less complicated mathematics.


I never disputed that.Maybe I should not have chosen that video.
Quote
I would prefer to find the midpoint of each chord with arithmetic, algebra, and well-tested formulas.  I would enjoy finding the slopes of the line segments so as to have the slope of the perpendicular line, so as to "plug in" the perpendicular slope and the midpoint coordinates to come up with the equations for two perpendicular bisectors (of two chords).   Then, solving these two systems I would have the coordinates for the center of the circle.

Schopenhauer claims to have resolved the riddle of the world which even the divine Plato & the great Kant failed to solve, there is no reason why he would not want to use "arithmetic, algebra, and well-tested formulas".

If one were to use your example,lets first keep this in mind:Lets remember the restriction of the forms of our
intellect,if our intellect is turned to completely abstract concepts,the aforesaid forms attaching to it give birth
to a lot of unnecessary confusion.And this confusion may lead to suicide attempts by many young kids.

Our intellect is not concerned at all with hollow concepts but with the "Earth".
Please bear with me,I will come to my point soon.

Nietzsche puts it rather well:
I beg of you my brothers, remain true to the earth, and believe not those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poisoners are they, whether they know it or not. Decaying ones and poisoned ones themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so away with them!

I am not endorsing his whole philosophy just this point which he is making here to ward off confusion.
Our form of understanding is merely of immanent application.Intellect is physical.
Its service concerns things only in nature,not anything that lies beyond it.
Now, lets take your  example of  finding the centre of a circle inscribed about a triangle where the location of the coordinates of all three vertices are known.

Imagine the most complicated  theoretical approach known to mankind to solve this problem.Schopenhauer would not shy away from using it.
You are the observer in the room &  you put him next to the most gort of math professors out there & look at them while they solve this problem ,there would be no difference whatsoever in terms of the technique they make use of in solving the problem,Schopenhauer would be quite capable of doing everything that the gort math professor could do.You are the observer in that room.You are looking are them,their technique.You find no difference.But & this a really, really big but ,if you could be look on the inside of the two of them it would be a different story altogether:
While the gort professor will think in terms of the centre & the vertices only,Schopenhauer would close his eyes & in his mind's eye he would imagine
that on one of the known coordinates there is a road with a lot of horse drawn buggies- with a lot of cracking of whips,on the other known coordinate stands a noisy seamstress  with her noisy friends & on the third coordinate is his mother Johanna Schopenhauer,she is having a salon there surrounded by her suitors.
The centre of the triangle is a sound proof,warm room with his poodle sitting next to the fireplace & the room has all the book by Kant & Plato...

The point is not technique, given sufficient time any technique can be mastered, the point is the context,the context is what those kids lacked.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 10:39:41 am by Holden »
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Mic True Son

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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2016, 11:35:27 am »
Quote from: Holden
Schopenhauer claims to have resolved the riddle of the world which even the divine Plato & the great Kant failed to solve, there is no reason why he would not want to use "arithmetic, algebra, and well-tested formulas".

If one were to use your example, lets first keep this in mind: Lets remember the restriction of the forms of our intellect, if our intellect is turned to completely abstract concepts, the aforesaid forms attaching to it give birth to a lot of unnecessary confusion. And this confusion may lead to suicide attempts by many young kids.

You make a good point.   Just the little example I used revealed how difficult it is for me to explain the steps in words, and the confusion caused by poorly expressing such things must lead to a great deal of confusion.

Maybe a gort math professor would do a better job explaining it.  It is a simple enough method, and - you are right - Schopenhauer would easily comprehend it.   The thing is, it is not like solving the riddle of the world.  There is no glory in it.

The key idea is that the perpendicular bisector of a chord will pass through the center of a circle. 

You say, "if our intellect is turned to completely abstract concepts, the aforesaid forms attaching to it give birth to a lot of unnecessary confusion."

I understand what you are saying, Holden, I do, and even as I am no longer a youth and have been a useless eater for several decades now, when I approach any exercise even in an introductory level text, I make frequent use of a mathematics dictionary or even the internet.  So, often I am not familiar with the terminology.   Would this be considered jargon? 

You have made me aware of how easily it is to spread confusion, and you are already aware of how reluctant I am to write about any details when it comes to math since it requires a different kind of writing style, one not at all poetic, and in fact, almost mechanical, like one might encounter in the military.

Is this what you mean by "hollow concepts" ?

This may be why it would be difficult to rouse Schopenhauer's interest with this minor riddle.  He was interested in the great riddle of existence itself, and did not want his brain filled with numbers and hollow concepts.

Maybe while clarifying this example we may inadvertently show why Cioran aimed at saying things that could be explained to a drunk or a dying man.  There is something about explaining technical details that seem to require us to actually apply a lower form of intelligence, hence the strain involved for those who are more concerned with the great riddle of existence itself, like the adolescent contemplating suicide, for instance.

It may also shed light on the Dionysian impulse to become inebriated.  While I do not promote becoming a wet brain, alcohol often made the brain blurt out some philosophically profound observations such as, "I do not exist!"

Anyway, back to the example.  The key idea is that the perpendicular bisector of a chord will pass through the center of a circle.  You may notice I am taking on the writing style of a detached military official who may or may not get his balls shot off in a war over natural resources, resources necessary for running the ever-expanding hive consisting of sea to sea shopping centers and baby breeding factories.  Please excuse this experimental writing style.

What might not be self-evident to the suicidal maniacs we call "the youth" is that each of the sides of the triangle is a chord of the circle.  Choose any of the sides of this triangle inscribed by a circle, and calculate the slope and the midpoint of that side.  This will allow you to write the equation of the perpendicular bisector of the side.  I suppose I now have to explain the details of these procedures so as not to be accused of spreading confusion and causing an epidemic of suicide among the already disgruntled youth of this wretched planet.   

So as not to be sidetracked, which would cause more confusion, let me say first that when you do the above for two different sides of the triangle, you will have found two lines that must intersect at the center of the circle.  You then can solve the system of equations to find the center of the circle.  Note that the distance from the center of the circle to any of the vertices will be the radius of the said circle.

I realize that the mechanics of this technique would be quite boring and unsatisfying to the Schopenhauerians among us, since I will only be explaining the how, saying nothing about the why.

I confess that this kind of description of methodology is difficult for me.   Holden made a keen observation:

Quote
About pedantry in math:
Schopenhauer says that math shows us nothing more than mere connections, relations of one idea to another, form devoid of all content.

As its devoid of all content, it becomes difficult for the human intellect to comprehend it..unlike what the pedants would have us believe.

Likewise, Dale Jacquette wrote that Schopenhauer opposes pedantry as a mark of low intelligence in all fields, including as no exception the most abstract efforts to understand the principles of logic and mathematics.

So, contrary to what the professors of mathematics would have you believe, when explaining the details of the somewhat simple procedure above, I am forced to engage a lower grade of intellect, hence the sense of putting on the hat of the "technician".   Again, please forgive the awkwardness of the following writing style.  I am not comfortable with writing in this manner.  It makes me downright cantankerous.

Trust me, I am only going on with this example to make a point, to show why such matters might bore a higher form of intelligence.  This must be truly frustrating  for those higher intelligences who are at the mercy of pedants and egghead educators.   I understand the conflict here.  I took a course called Computer Architecture and the professor spoke like a robot designed by the military.  We had to draw diagrams of logic circuits and write some code in assembly language.   While it was difficult, it was difficult precisely because the intelligence involved in each step was so mechanical, robotic, and what Schopenhauer might call a "lower level of intelligence."

Using one of Schopenhauer's terms, I will say that explaining the details of such an example is torturous, but it may show what makes more complicated operations "difficult".   It is not that one does not possess enough brain power.  It is quite the opposite.  I think it may be that the technical details require that the higher intelligence has to be suppressed momentarily so that a lower form of intelligence can mechanically churn out the results like a machine.

Tedious details are not my forte.

I go on long tangents.   Now I will return to the two sentences that require further details.  Again, forgive me for writing like a schoolmaster.

Choose any of the sides of this triangle inscribed by a circle, and calculate the slope and the midpoint of that side.  This will allow you to write the equation of the perpendicular bisector of the side.

Of course Schopenhauer could handle this, but it would not be very satisfying for him.

Let a lightweight intellect like Hentrich handle something so mechanical.  Schopenhauer is preoccupied with outsmarting Mother Nature and short-circuiting human evolution, which depends on not knowing what the hell is really taking place.  Thankfully Schopenhauer did not waste his days calculating the slopes and midpoints of lines!   Call Igor for such menial tasks.

Igor!

"Yes, to find the midpoint of a line ... you can use the coordinates of  two vertices corresponding to the two endpoints of the line in question.  It's stuff kids learn very young these days and hardly needs to be explained.  If vertex A = (x1, y1) and vertex B = (x2, y2), then the midpoint between A and B is ( (x1+x2)/2 , (y1+y2)/2 ).    As for the slope, that is an equally painless procedure:   Slope m = (y2 - y1) / (x2 - x1)."

Thank you, Igor.   

Now, since we want the equation of the perpendicular bisector of the side we are calling AB, we first take the slope m of AB and calculate its negative reciprocal, -1/m.  We then use that slope with the coordinates of the midpoint to get the equation of the desired line, which goes by the name "perpendicular bisector".

Igor, this is all rather pedantic/didactic.  Do you mind?

"At this stage it is helpful to use actual numbers to make it easier to type.  Suppose we calculated the midpoint to be (1, -1/2) and the slope as -1/2.  Then the slope of the line perpendicular to the side is -(1/(-1/2)) = 2.   The equation of the perpendicular bisector is then y - (-1/2) = 2(x - 1), which, with a little algebraic manipulation can be written as 4*x - 2*y -5 = 0."

"We would perform the same calculation for another pair of vertices to find the equation of the corresponding perpendicular bisector for that side of the triangle.  Suppose we ended up with 6*x - 10*y - 10 = 0 as the second equation.  Now we just solve this system of equations in two unknowns getting x and y which will be the coordinates of the center of the circle where these two god damned lines intersect."

Thank you, Igor.  Do you want to get a drink? 

"Herr Hentrich!  We are scheduled to cover the standard form for an equation of a circle today.  Surely you must be joking."

Where's the fuucking bar, Igor ?!!?

"But ... what about all the typos?"   :-\

not now john


Quote from: Holden
The point is not technique, given sufficient time any technique can be mastered, the point is the context, the context is what those kids lacked.

You may have a point.  Techniques ... that is what I am studying, isn't it?  I have tried to master some techniques in the past, but I lost interest.  I am determined to peck away at this each day.

Hence, technician ... an Hentrician Technician, not to be confused with a satanic mechanic.   ;)

That's why I have committed myself to putting in a good five years of trying to master the techniques hammered out by countless undergraduate students of physics all over the planet.  I share their burden.  I am in their orbit.  I sympathize with their inclinations to blow their minds with drugs and alcohol.

Of course, we may be drawn to different areas of mathematics.  I am not getting any younger, so I am focusing on areas I have been exposed to, going back to fill in the gaps, as I have said.  There are many gaps, but I am determined to work in an honest manner so as not to fool myself.

I do not want to discourage you from taking your own approach.  Follow your own intuition.  For me, at this point, about all I am asking of myself is to reconstitute ... to try to maintain a beginner's mind when possible.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 09:55:08 pm by {∅} »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Mic True Son

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Hentrich is no Schopenhauer, but so what ...
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 08:56:39 pm »
Quote from: Holden
After Schopenhauer,you are the greatest philosopher we've had.(Did Cioran study math?)

No, Holden, I am not.  I actually prefer to see myself more clearly as I truly am, if you don't mind.  This is not false modesty.

I am not Nietzsche or Heidegger or Husserl or Merleu-Ponty (none of which impressed me the way Schopenhauer did, as you are well aware).  Schopenhauer is my "spiritual grandfather".  He told me things I wished my biological grandfathers would have told me.  Alas, it takes a village to raise a child.  Schopenhauer has helped me get through this life and to understand why I have not paired off with a woman and reproduced.  He has helped me make sense of my existence.

I will never publish anything I have ever written, unless, of course, if I live to be a very old man, maybe I might write something aimed at teenagers since that was the most difficult period of life for me.  You see, I lose patience with those who explain the world to us.   We each can only try to explain this world to ourselves as best as we can just to get through each moment.

I think it is best for both of us if we divorce ourselves from those competing to solve the great riddles.  When the sun expires and the surface of the earth looks like the surface of the moon, there will be no memory of Schopenhauer or even of the Vedas or Upanishads.  It will be as though no one had ever been born.

I am going to join you in this exploration of the translations of Kant, but I must say I am a little skeptical about any attempts to make sense of lived experience.  I think that life will take all my marbles away before it's over.

So, while I am still able, all I aspire to do is go over some fundamental mathematics and work on some problems whenever I am in the state of mind to do so.

Life is hard enough to endure without thinking of oneself as "the greatest philosopher since Schopenhauer".

It could only lead to a rude awakening.   My view of myself is far more humble.  While Schopenhauer was an outsider due to his views and in the manner which he expressed those views, he was a tremendous scholar so he more than held his own when taking on the established "academic philosophers".   I am, in contrast, an outsider because I am an amateur.  I am certainly no intellectual heavy weight. 

What you may find appealing about my way of expressing myself is my attempt to be as intellectually honest as possible.  I think we both share an extreme contempt for the pretentious, the pompous, and the downright snotty attitudes found among those who play the role of academic philosophers or officially sanctioned "students of analytic philosophy".   Let's not even get started thinking about actual "mathematicians".  My god, you would think they own the branch of knowledge, as if it were some kind of well-guarded priesthood.   ::) 

No, we are outsiders, outcasts, untouchable nobodies.  We shall study Kant to the best of our ability, regardless.  Maybe our understanding of Schopenhauer's work will give us an unexpected advantage in that we might try to see the work through Schopenhauer's eyes.

Really, though, I don't think reading Kant will give me the mental stimulation I get from writing a simple computer program.

I get a thrill just being able to write a computer program in C/C++ that factors a quadratic equation, showing each step.  This is about the limit of my mental capacity.  I do not possess the kind of brain Schopenhauer had as far as learning other languages and pouring through difficult and ancient Indian texts.   It's ok.  I am ok with just being me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I get a kick out of making simple programs like this even though I could use a CAS or do this with pencil and paper.  Suppose I want to factor 2*x^2 - 3*x - 14, I type my homemade program, tfac2, at the command line:

hentrich@coyote:[~]: tfac2

To factor quadratic trinomial of the form a*x^2 + b*x + c,
Input a (>0), b, and c (!=0):
2 -3 -14

We want to find the binomial factors of 2*x^2 + -3*x + -14
of the form (m*x + p)(n*x + q), where
m*n = 2
p*q = -14
m*q + p*n = -3

The integral factors of 2 are {1, 2}

The integral factors of -14 are {1, -1, 2, -2, 7, -7, 14, -14}

TRIAL FACTORIZATION                   LINEAR TERM
--------------------------------------------------------------------

(m)   (p) (n)    (q)             m*q + n*p = b
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(1*x + 1) (2*x + -14)             1*-14 + 2*1 = -12
(1*x + -1) (2*x + 14)             1*14 + 2*-1 = 12
(1*x + 2) (2*x + -7)             1*-7 + 2*2 = -3
(1*x + -2) (2*x + 7)             1*7 + 2*-2 = 3
(1*x + 7) (2*x + -2)             1*-2 + 2*7 = 12
(1*x + -7) (2*x + 2)             1*2 + 2*-7 = -12
(1*x + 14) (2*x + -1)             1*-1 + 2*14 = 27
(1*x + -14) (2*x + 1)             1*1 + 2*-14 = -27

--------------------------------------------------------------------
The unique complete factorization is:

(1*x + 2)(2*x + -7)

_______________________________________________________
That was the output.

The code is below:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Factoring a quadratic trinomial of the form a*x^2 + b*x + c is just a matter of  brute force:
// plugging in the factors of the second degree coefficient a and the factors of the constant c
// and seeing which combinations add up to first degree coefficient b.

#include <iostream>
#include <cmath>
#include <vector>

using namespace std;

vector<int> factors(int number, int negative = 0);
int factorTrinomial(int a,int b,int c);

int main()  {
  int a, b, c;
   cout << "To factor quadratic trinomial of the form a*x^2 + b*x + c," << endl;
   do {
     cout << "Input a (>0), b, and c (!=0):" << endl;
     cin >> a >> b >> c;
     } while ( (a <= 0) || (c == 0) );
    factorTrinomial(a, b, c);
    return 0;
}


int factorTrinomial(int a,int b,int c)  {
// factors a polynomial of the form a*x^2 + b*x + c'''
   vector<int> afactors = factors(a,0);
   vector<int> cfactors = factors(c,1);

  int irreducible = 0;

// variables used for "Trial Factorizations and Linear Term"
double a2, c2;

  cout << endl << "We want to find the binomial factors of " << a << "*x^2 + " << b << "*x + " << c;
  cout << endl << "of the form (m*x + p)(n*x + q), where " << endl;
  cout << "m*n = " << a << endl;
  cout << "p*q = " << c << endl;
  cout << "m*q + p*n = " << b;
  cout << endl << endl;

  cout << "The integral factors of " << a << " are {";
  for (int i = 0; i < afactors.size(); i++)   {
       cout << afactors;
       if (i < afactors.size() - 1)  {  cout << ", "; }
       else {  cout << "}" << endl << endl; }
   }
   cout << "The integral factors of " << c << " are {";
   for (int i = 0; i < cfactors.size(); i++)   {
        cout << cfactors;
        if (i < cfactors.size() - 1)  {  cout << ", "; }
        else {  cout << "}" << endl << endl; }
   }

   cout << "TRIAL FACTORIZATION                   LINEAR TERM" << endl;
   cout << "--------------------------------------------------------------------" << endl;
   for (int i = 1; i <= abs(a); i++)     {
         a2 = double(a)/double(i);
         if ( abs(a2) != int(abs(a2)) )  { continue;}
         if ( a2 < i ) { break; }
         cout << endl << "(m)   (p) (n)    (q)             m*q + n*p = b"  << endl;
        cout << "--------------------------------------------------------------------" << endl;

         for (int j = 1; j <= abs(c); j++)   {
               c2 = double(c)/double(j);
               if ( abs(c2) != int(abs(c2)) )  { continue; }

               cout << "(" << i << "*x + " <<  j  << ") ("
                                 <<    a2 << "*x + " <<   c2 << ")"
                                 << "             ";
                cout <<   i  << "*" << c2  << " + " <<  a2
                                  << "*" << j << " = "
                                  << i * c2 + a2 * j;
                cout << endl;
                // include negative factors of c (-c2 = -c/j, and -j)
                cout << "(" << i << "*x + " <<  -j  << ") ("
                                  <<    a2 << "*x + " <<   -c2 << ")"
                                  << "             ";
                 cout <<   i  << "*" << -c2  << " + " <<  a2
                                   << "*" << -j << " = "
                                   << i * -c2 + a2 * -j;
                 cout << endl;
          } // end inner for loop
     }// end outer for loop

    cout << endl <<  "--------------------------------------------------------------------" << endl;
    cout << "The unique complete factorization is: " << endl << endl;

     for (int i = 0; i < afactors.size(); i++)     {   // try all the factors of a
           for (int j = 0; j < cfactors.size(); j++)   {  // and all the factors of c
                                                                    // see which combinations add up to b
                    if ( afactors * ( c / cfactors[j] ) + ( a / afactors ) * cfactors[j]  == b )  {
                             cout << "(" << afactors << "*x + " << cfactors[j] << ")("
                                    <<    int(a / afactors) << "*x + " <<  int( c / cfactors[j]) << ")" << endl << endl;
                       return 0;
                     }

           } // end inner for loop
      }// end outer for loop

    /* DEBUG:
      cout << "What happened?" << endl << endl;
      cout << "The integral factors of " << a << " are {";
      for (int i = 0; i < afactors.size(); i++)   {
           cout << afactors;
           if (i < afactors.size() - 1)  {  cout << ", "; }
           else {  cout << "}" << endl << endl; }
       }
       cout << "The integral factors of " << c << " are {";
       for (int i = 0; i < cfactors.size(); i++)   {
            cout << cfactors;
            if (i < cfactors.size() - 1)  {  cout << ", "; }
            else {  cout << "}" << endl << endl; }
       }
    // end DEBUG  */


    if (irreducible == 0) {  cout << endl << "IRREDUCIBLE" << endl << endl; }
    return 0;
}

vector<int> factors(int n, int neg) {
  // returns a list of the positive and negative factors of a number n'''
   vector<int> factorList;
   n = abs(n);
   for (int i = 1; i <= n; i++)   {
        if (n % i  == 0)       {   // if n is divisible by i (i divides n)
             factorList.push_back(i);   //  i is a factor
          if (neg == 1)  {  factorList.push_back(-i);   }   // so is -i
       }
    }
    return factorList;
}

// a*x^2 + b*x + c = (m*x + p)(n*x + q)
// Given a*x^2 + b*x + c, we want to output the factorization
// in the form (m*x + p)(n*x + q), where
//  m*n = a
// p*q = c
// m*q + n*p = b
______________________________________________________

All I am trying to say is, I am content to tinker around with stuff like this.  I do not want to be "one of the great philosophers" or even some kind of "writer".

I just want to honor whatever mental capacities I have.  I don't see myself as some kind of genius at all.  Please view me as just another creature who happens to be passing through the world the same time you are.

Thanks for taking me seriously.  The respect you grant me is a rare thing.  I do appreciate it, and I try to give you a similar kind of respect.

There are moments where it is all i can do to keep a grip on my temper, but I do have a handle on it.  I think I have a high degree of psychological insight, which helps me keep things in perspective.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:30:45 am by { { } } »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 03:55:31 am »
Quote
While Schopenhauer was an outsider due to his views and in the manner which he expressed those views, he was a tremendous scholar so he more than held his own when taking on the established "academic philosophers".   I am, in contrast, an outsider because I am an amateur.  I am certainly no intellectual heavy weight. 

While you may not have a doctorate in philosophy unlike Schopenhauer,I can tell you for a fact that you are far more well read than many tenured professors. And far more insightful.
In fact,I personally do not know anyone who is as well read as you are.

One thing remains mysterious to me though-I'd like to know what exactly draws you towards Heidegger ,Husserl and Merleu-Ponty?Would you be kind enough to spell it out for me?
I do intend to follow your footsteps in reading all three of them.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 04:41:40 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Mic True Son

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 09:06:15 am »
Nothing draws me to Heidegger, I'm sorry to say.  I have not been able to ever really get into his writings.   Isn't it strange?  What was so unique about how Schopenhauer wrote?  What is it about his writings which stand out?  Why is he such a pleasure to read in comparison to, say, Heidegger or Sartre, or even Husserl or Merleau-Ponty?

The only writings of Husserl I own is a collection called "The Essential Husserl: Basic Writings in Transcendental Phenomenology".  It is not so much the manner in which Husserl writes, but the subject matter which I find interesting.   I imagine Kant and Schopenhauer and even Hume or Berkeley being interested in such things as "A Phenomenology of the Consciousness of Internal Time".

For Merleau-Ponty, I only have "Phenomenology of Perception".

I have to confess that both Husserl and Merleau-Ponty are rather dry in comparison to Schopenhauer.   I am no expert.

You don't have to follow my path.  Don't you see that my actual path, while there were intentions to study a little bit of this and a little bit of that, the Steppenwolf (Mr Hyde, that is) very often took the reigns of power at the control panel of the brain's command center.  There were times in my life where i found it difficult just to get through the days and nights, where I became furious at those around me and felt I could not get away from other people. 

I have attempted to be far more open and honest about the darker side of human nature (in my writing) than most of these phenemenologists or existentialist philosophers.   They may appear far more scholastic because of their use of terminology and their dedication to their own systematic way of writing about existence.

I'm afraid I lean more in the direction of Cioran, albeit, I don't possess such a vocabulary as he did.

I aim more to think philosophically than to be a philosopher.

Today, if I study geometry, it is so as to learn how to think geometrically rather than to aspire to be a geometer.

I am no longer a child - far from it.   By now I no longer believe in all the mumbo-jumbo titles of "the adult world".  By now I see what a crock of shiit it all is.  I have much in common with the frustrated teenager who has a deep distrust of the adults presuming to instruct him.

The reason I encourage you to focus on studying "high school mathematics" is because I feel this kind of studying has the very least amount of bullshiit in it, whereas some of these philosophers were really swimming in it.

I wonder if you have gotten  some kind of digital copy of Max Muller's 2 part translation of the Upanishads.  There may be some valuable insights into what Schopenhauer was saying.

Anyway, at this point in my life, I think I am going to give some attention to Muller's translations of the Upanishads.

You say I am well read.  I suppose that means my head is very much filled with pig shiit.  Thankfully though, there is a tremendous amount that I have not read.   I mean, there is a great abundance of pig shiit I have not read.  I have tried to only read that which is worth reading more than once, and then to study that.   Hence, my obsession with Schopenhauer and my total refusal to read Hegel.  No, I am not very well read.  I have chosen what to read wisely, I guess.   

I never wasted much time on the Bible or the Koran, and I don't understand why so many people make such a big deal about such books.   

So, I must insist that I am not well read, and that I am not ashamed of the fact that I am ignorant of a great deal of horsecrap. 

There are many things of which a wise man might wish to be ignorant.   ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

 The reason I enjoy working on "school mathematics" problems is because there is a far less reading per thinking ratio.  In other words, there is more time spent in thinking than in reading.

Read whatever you are drawn to at the moment.  Biographies about Christopher Marlowe are quite interesting.

Marlowe said that one cigarette had more value than all the gospels combined.

Just try to get through the day, through each moment.  You are right to long for death.  Be patient.  The world is not our friend.  We are in its grip.  I am honored that you find in me someone worth acknowledging as one who has thought about our predicament. 

In the end, I have to eat food each day, and this is our common dilemma.  Meanwhile there are hurricanes and such wreaking havoc on libraries and grocery stores and hospitals. 

Hide under blankets when possible.  Hide away with your books and beans whenever you have the opportunity.

Here's an unrelated question.  Do you ever eat ice cream?   There is something sinful about it.  I enjoy a bit of chocolate or coffee ice cream now and then, I must confess, not for breakfast, of course.

We are just these vulnerable creatures who need to eat and keep warm.  Whatever we might read or write or think, we can't escape what we have in common with all animals, with all other human beings. 

Life can't be easy for anyone. 

I'm sure Schopenhuer was well aware of just how fortunate he was to be able to spend his life as he did.  Not a moment passed in which he was not aware of those trapped in the debtor prisons and mental asylums.   

I am sorry we have to endure existence.  I am glad we have a forum where we can write as honestly as possible about the real situation.

I think we are lucky that we take an interest in philosophy and mathematics as a curiosity, and that we do not belong to the class of professional "intellectuals".  We would not be able to keep up the farce.  And I suspect that it is quite a farce where no one feels at liberty to discuss their bad moods or their general doubts about everything they have ever written.   

We are free to change our minds, and free to forget the things which don't make much sense to us.

It's all so much to do about nothing.

I don't want to discourage you from exploring the writings of Husserl or Merleau-Ponty.  I just want to clarify that, at least over the last couple of years, I have found that I like to focus on things I stand a chance of actually understanding, such as high school and undergraduate mathematics.  It's more satisfying (to me) to be able to follow what I am studying, even if I spend several months on a couple textbooks before moving onto another set of textbooks.

I am pecking away at Kant and the Upanishads and some other literature late at night, but I won't be making much headway, I'm sure.  Just a little at a time.

If I should lose interest, this doesn't mean that your reading projects are any less valuable.  I'm going through some kind of inner transformation where I am losing patience with long philosophical arguments.  I am not even interested in many of the major metaphysical problems.

I am alone with my thoughts.  When I write to you I like to be as honest as possible about where I stand.  I am becoming "less intelligent", or at least less sophisticated.  Regression?  Perhaps.  Or maybe I just want to be one of the least pretentious, the least flamboyant men who ever existed.

Have you ever been reading something, and after a few paragraphs you suspect that while you are reading the words, nothing at all is being understood and retained?

That happens to me with some literature I read.

With math, one must read a little bit of information over and over again until it is clear.  It's a different kind of "reading".

I guess that's why i say that revisiting high school mathematics is making me more honest, more intellectually honest.  I can't fool myself into thinking I am understanding.  I need to concentrate.

If I am this philosopher you see me as, then what I am involved in now is an experiment in intellectual honesty, where I wish to blow a huge hole in this world's idea of itself.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 05:58:40 am by { { } } »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 04:26:13 am »
Quote
Nothing draws me to Heidegger, I'm sorry to say.  I have not been able to ever really get into his writings.   Isn't it strange?  What was so unique about how Schopenhauer wrote?  What is it about his writings which stand out?  Why is he such a pleasure to read in comparison to, say, Heidegger or Sartre, or even Husserl or Merleau-Ponty?

The only writings of Husserl I own is a collection called "The Essential Husserl: Basic Writings in Transcendental Phenomenology".  It is not so much the manner in which Husserl writes, but the subject matter which I find interesting.   I imagine Kant and Schopenhauer and even Hume or Berkeley being interested in such things as "A Phenomenology of the Consciousness of Internal Time".

For Merleau-Ponty, I only have "Phenomenology of Perception".

Thank you for the pointer .I'd drop Heidegger.I would read Husserl and Merleau-Ponty.
If Kant is right ,and I certainly believe he is,then, you know,we are not really talking to each other. There is just one undifferentiated "Thing in Itself" and one part of it is touching the other part to get to know how it would feel.
In fact,no one ever,in the history of the planet has ever talked with anyone.
It is all just so much eyewash.Sometimes I get these visions of complete silence and a dead sea of tranquility where nothing moves, where there is no sound.
Where you could hear a pin drop-only there is no pin there,there is nothing.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Mic True Son

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2017, 06:16:28 am »
I just want you to know that behind everything I write is a tinge of self-doubt. 

Also, I do a great deal of editing after i have typed something, mainly because I make many typographical errors.  When the error is more of a logical mistake, I will try to contain myself, leaving what I wrote, and then noting a correction.

Such as:

Quote
I am alone with my thoughts.  When I write to you I like to be as honest as possible about where I stand.  I am becoming "less intelligent", or at least less sophisticated.  Regression?  Perhaps.  Or maybe I just want to be one of the least pretentious, the least flamboyant men who ever existed.

I sense that I used the wrong wording here. It is not that i am becoming less intelligent, but that I am becoming less patient with jargon and specific uses of terminology.  Phrases such as "the historicity of philosophy" repulse me. 

Sometimes I wonder if what we think of as our "self" is not just some kind of fabrication we've invented.

I often wonder who this toothless egg-eating creature is that I cannot get away from.  It is The Thing in Itself, the Will.  It is at once me and not me.

It sure isn't pleasant.  The best thing about spending a great amount of time alone is that I don't have to pretend to be anything other than what it is I really am. 

Over here they are starting up so much hype about rejuvenating high school education as though there are actually people who know best what it is that they should teach or how to go about preparing the youth for what they call "the future".

Nobody is willing to admit that they don't know what the fuuck they are doing.  This world gives me the creeps.

If a book started out with "I am not sure I know what I am talking about or that there is even such a thing as I", then I would be curious to read more. 

When an individual claims to be "in a bad mood" or "irritable," are they not simply expressing what it feels like to exist?   This is it.  The so-called Bad Mood is the Thing in Itself.  We each have to eat food and all the rest.  Being alive isn't pleasant at all, so all the hype about how great everything is, or how there is some great future ahead for those youth willing to study very hard is just a huge lie.  It's as though there are actually people who believe that becoming the president of a country or the manager for some bank is going to change the nature of life itself.  The gorts believe the lie.  The gorts promote these lies. 

Life itself, at its core, is a bad mood.  It feels more like hate than love.  If you are honest about how it feels to exist, they want to prescribe you medication and force feed you "positive psychology" and "therapy" until you learn to lie like a good little boy who wants to please those who can make life very difficult for you if you get on their bad side..

Becoming more intimate with the Bad Mood makes one suspect those who speak of "Love" and "the Heavenly Father" as being intellectually dishonest, not just with others, but in between their own ears.

The honest will feel like a sulking hungry brooding child. 

There is a condition that is called "hypoglycemic" or low blood sugar.

Imagine that.   They have an explanation for everything.   You feeling dizzy with blurry vision?  You have low blood sugar.  You need to do such and such.

Everything all tidy and organized and under control.

You worried about not having a roof over your head due to insufficient funds?

That's called financial insecurity.  We don't have any pills for that.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 07:03:06 am by { { } } »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Mic True Son

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Re: Schopenhauer was no Gauss, but so what ...
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2024, 01:49:00 pm »
So what, indeed.
I made it through a cold night, but I must not have slept too much as I am falling nodding out into sleep involuntarily as I type these words. 

Oh No, dejavu!

A woman working at the store of the lot my car ran on fumes to be stranded in gave me 10 dollars worth of gas, so I was able to drive to my storage facility.   I grabbed one of my "Now 10 years old" computers, the one with multiboot menu (Windows 10, Artix, Funtoo, Slackware).   I had tried to transfer some files from the computer to a "smart phone" but the machines were not getting along.  That is, USB unable to transfer files ... Maybe they are all quirky due to the freezing cold.   

I then booted into Funtoo to feed a couple matrices into gauss++.

I had to remember the exact way to inout the Matrix.   I looked at some code and became dizzy with tiredness.  Then I came accross this odd post in a thread called "Abstract Algebra with GAP" --- I must have been into that towards the end of my stay at Leisure Village, just before my mother sold her unit and I became homeless.


Some excerpts from THAT POST:

Quote
Have you read the book, Riddle of the World.

Amazingly, it is written by a woman, Barbara Hannan, who identifies with Schopenhauer, regardless of his being pigeonholed as misogynist.

Quote from: Schopenhauer
Anything true that a man conceives, and anything obscure that he elucidates, will at some time or other be grasped by another thinking mind, and impress, delight, and console it. To such a man we speak, just as those like us have spoken to us, and have been our consolation in this wilderness of life.

Quote from: Barbara Hannan
Schopenhauer is also insufficiently appreciated as one of the fathers of psychoanalysis and existentialism. To some extent, I would like to remedy this situation and get Schopenhauer more of the credit he deserves.

Schopenhauer speaks to me primarily because my personality is similar in many respects to his. Schopenhauer was an introvert who loved animals more than he loved people. So am I. He loved and respected empirical science (while appreciating its limitations), hated empty verbiage and intellectual pretension, and cared above all about the pursuit of truth. I do as well. He was pessimistic. So am I.

I remember reading this back in 2014 in between my drinking binges.  I might not have thought to mention it back then.

It is comforting to read something that is about this riddle of existence itself.  When I spend most of the day installing "packages", unpacking modules, and then reading manuals, my brain begins to wonder if doubts and confusions creep into the minds of those who write such textbooks, manuals and the mathematics software itself, not to mention the compilers and operating systems.

I also want to look at the world without flinching, and yet I find it just a little creepy that some people can have so much insight into higher mathematics while so many of us can barely follow ...

I mean, I certainly have more respect for those who spend their lives studying than for those who succumb to Hollywood/Bollywood and video games, but I also sympathize with how so many can become frustrated. 

With this stuff I feel like I will only be able to scratch the surface, whereas with Schopenhauer, well, he goes to the root of it.  I mean, the problem of existence itself ...

I have to confess that my brain is not very disciplined.  When I see what is involved in getting some math in "latex" form, I wonder if it is at all worth it. 

Is it just me, or isn't it all just so goddam overwhelming?  All the technology, I mean.

Or even Euclid's Elements, is it really necessary to give such detailed proofs?

I become so tired of being human, of being a member of such a complicated civilization where we depend on technology that we cannot fathom.

I imagine a mathematician with advanced degrees in the snow looking for sticks to burn ... and I wonder how he or she would feel staring at the cold moon with merciless freezing wind numbing the face and limbs. 

I don't want to die a phony.  I want to be honest. 

Do you ever reach that point where you don't know whether to be in awe of the math and the code or just baffled by it?

You are right.  Many do not take time to wonder about the riddle of existence.

Isn't it most honest to admit to being baffled?

I guess people don't dare show this to others since most others are not this honest.

We can at least admit these things to ourselves in private.


POETIC PHILOSOPHY:

"What is going on?
What am I?
What am I doing here?
 & How do I fit into this madness I see all around me?"

I suppose one really has to be IN THE MOOD .... to tinker with the technical ...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2024, 06:10:29 am by Gorticidal Spirit :: Just Another Philosopher in Rags »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~