Author Topic: D-503 (Read 11447 times)

Mad Dog Mike · « **on:** July 10, 2014, 03:29:50 pm »

According to a Wikipedia article, Kurt Vonnegut and George Orwell professed being influenced by Zamyatin's We, and George Orwell believed that Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World (1932) “must be partly derived from” We.

From Wikipedia:

The story is told by the protagonist, “D-503″, in his diary, which details both his work as a mathematician and his misadventures with a resistance group called the Mephi, who take their name from Mephistopheles.

D-503 lives in the One State, an urban nation constructed almost entirely of glass, where everything is organized according to primitive mathematics. Sleep times are measured out for each day and each individual is given a certain number of other people to have intercourse with based on a system of pink coupons and scheduling. People move around according to special marches in-step with each other and wear special suits so there is hardly any way to differentiate between different people save by their given numbers. Males have odd numbers prefixed by consonants, females have even numbers prefixed by vowels.

D-503 spends most of his time with O-90 and R-13, referring to their relationship as a “triangle.” He eventually falls in love with I-330 and the problems begin. He starts a diary as a testament to the happiness that the One State has discovered. He hopes to present it to the extraterrestrial civilizations he will visit, with the spaceship he designed and oversaw the building of, the Integral. This ends up being all a part of the Great Benefactor’s plan so he could collect as many Mephi followers as possible.

As the novel progresses, D-503’s infatuation with I-330, a rebellious woman in league with Mephi, starts to take over his life. He starts to lose his initial dedication to the One State, and his ability to differentiate between reality and dreams starts to fade. He is permitted to take off work at one point to overcome his illness, but cannot seem to shake the strange and alien sensations he is experiencing.

By the end of his story, he has almost been driven to madness by inner conflicts between himself and his society, or imagination and mathematical truths. In addition, other members of the One State have fallen prey to higher math and various forms of chaos begin to occur. The “Green Wall” that separates their world from the outside is destroyed, birds begin to populate the glass city, people start having intercourse with the blinds up without using coupons, and the Great Benefactor has to create a special field to keep out the Mephis and their followers.

At the end, D-503 is arrested and brought in for the Great Operation (similar to a lobotomy), where his imagination is removed and he no longer loves, falling back into his previous existence.

Holden · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2014, 12:54:50 am »

Higher math is all about fractals,chaos,non-linear equations,irregular geometrical figures..schizophrenia.
I don’t know why but I have never been able to look at math as a discipline of logic & reason, almost everyone I know thinks math is all about squares & regular shapes,Jesus,my perception of math is exactly the opposite,I don’t know if I’m making any sense,but that’s how I feel, if math has such a thing as its core then it will be filled with fractals & chaos (the Latin frāctus meaning "broken" or "fractured") like my psyche is schizophrenic.Am I not a part of the universe just like math,how can its core be different than mine.Not just so-called higher math,all math feels chaotic to me somehow.Schopenhauer was among the first to contend that at its core, the universe is not a rational place.

I agree with Kant's view that human rationality lacks the power to answer questions, since our knowledge is limited by our specific and narrowly-circumscribed capacities for organizing our field of sensation. It is a perennial philosophical reflection that if one looks deeply enough into oneself, one will discover not only one's own essence, but also the essence of the universe. For as one is a part of the universe as is everything else, the basic energies of the universe flow through oneself, as they flow through everything else. So it is thought that one can come into contact with the nature of the universe if one comes into substantial contact with one's ultimate inner being.

Math? (& not just so-called higher math,all math)it is not ordo ab chao,its chaos from order.

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2014, 02:00:35 pm »

Quote from: Holden

if one looks deeply enough into oneself, one will discover not only one's own essence, but also the essence of the universe.

This reminds me something Cioran had written. Damn, I feel crippled without isis.phpbb3now.org since I could just do a local search for the exact quote, but I will give spontaneity a shot.

One reaches a deeper state of disgust when, besides being annoyed and agitated by other humans one is annoyed and agitated by the very core of one's own being ... Schopenhauer's term "the will" ... life ... what everyone experiences ...

Beyond the sense of disgust for the redundancy of "modern life," one might suspect that our disgust goes even deeper ... the redundancy of eating food, sexual release, et cetera ...

Those who are honest about how they really feel about "the miracle of life" will be called whiners or complainers, and yet it is Life Itself, Conscious of its ceaseless irritability, expressing its truth.

I've been listening to John Trudell talking, and this increases the inner tensions within me. I mean, I really appreciate John's coherency. I have contradictions within my being. I, Life Itself, am/is trying to find clarity.

So there is chaos in our core being: I appreciate Ligotti's take on things while also appreciating Trudell's take on things.

Life itself is irrational and makes no sense whatsoever. Vonnegut said something similar. He was able to joke about suicide even though his mother had taken her own life.

Maybe we panic when we glimpse this chaos in our minds and in the world in general.

While employed as a maintenance worker for the State Parks, early on when stationed at Cheesequake, I remember a co-worker, BR, telling me that people who try to wrap their minds around it all end up committing suicide or going insane (or both). I think I mentioned this somewhere in DEAD END.

Quote

A coworker at Cheesequake had brought up the fact that people who continue to ponder deeply the questions, “Why am I here?” and “What is the true nature of reality?” will eventually go insane or commit suicide. It was comical. We were driving around in the State Park truck cracking up.

In high school I said "zero equals infinity" - meaning that "nothing" is just as great as "endless succession" (as in endless space or time that does not begin or end). I don't know what I was up to saying such a thing, but I know I was melting my own brain just considering this stuff. What's the nature of time and space anyway? I mean, we can refer to the things Schopenhauer or Kant wrote about as far as the ideality of time and space, but just considering these things ourselves is something that may occur to countless creatures. Not everyone attempts to articulate what they wonder about.

When we do, we may tend to think we have to make sense, and yet ...

This reminds me of the first time I read Schopenhauer when he wrote something to the effect that "the world is in my head but my head is in the world." If Schopenhauer were alive in this age he might have been a greatly respected comedian simply for talking about the things he did.

Quote from: Holden

So it is thought that one can come into contact with the nature of the universe if one comes into substantial contact with one's ultimate inner being.

The Trickster is always hungry.

Sea Eagles are rude to one another ...

We stare in the abyss and the abyss stares back.

Maybe one's ultimate inner being is void. I mean, we type these words but we know that, ultimately we will not exist.

There doesn't seem to be any salvation in words or mathematics ... and yet we do bother to wonder.

Quote

... D-503’s infatuation with I-330, a rebellious woman in league with Mephi, starts to take over his life. He starts to lose his initial dedication to the One State, and his ability to differentiate between reality and dreams starts to fade. He is permitted to take off work at one point to overcome his illness, but cannot seem to shake the strange and alien sensations he is experiencing.

By the end of his story, he has almost been driven to madness by inner conflicts between himself and his society, or imagination and mathematical truths. In addition, other members of the One State have fallen prey to higher math and various forms of chaos begin to occur. The “Green Wall” that separates their world from the outside is destroyed, birds begin to populate the glass city, people start having intercourse with the blinds up without using coupons, and the Great Benefactor has to create a special field to keep out the Mephis and their followers.

At the end, D-503 is arrested and brought in for the Great Operation (similar to a lobotomy), where his imagination is removed and he no longer loves, falling back into his previous existence.

Are we being driven to madness by inner conflicts between ourselves and our society, or imagination and mathematical truths?

This seems to be the case. What is Life up to?

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2015, 12:18:11 pm »

So, I was looking for just how "studying weird mathematics" was viewed as a subversive and radical activity in Zamyatin's novel, We. The State only wanted the kind of math that was able to handle work schedules and keep track of s-e-x sessions with lottery appointed partners. The State supported mathematics that could be applied to building the walls of the city or the Spaceship that could lead to "colonization" of the goddam f-ing Milky Way.

OK, so I'm on some tangent trying to see how the anti-intellectualism of a "sports crazed" dumbed-down population is related to Zamyatin's We, and by extension, Orwell's 1984 and THOUGHT-CRIME.

What the hell is this? Mathematical Fiction?

Holy F-ck, there are some real weirdos out here in cyberspace. Be careful. You might learn something. Dog forbid.

So, I was wondering what these weirdos' take is on Zamyatin ... and the possible psychiatric diseasification of a propensity to study math beyond the practical use for economists and full-of-sh-it political bosses.

kasmana.people.cofc.edu

It looks like another dead end. Maybe it is more crucial to recall Zamyatin's significant comment about how his best novels were never written. Of course, he had to live those.

NEXT: Polynomial Rings ... and the coming insurrection ... coming to a cubicle near you very soon!

Holden · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2015, 01:30:07 pm »

I really like the idea of taking a particular topic and studying it in all its aspects.
In the Corporate setting,I end up spreading myself too thin.My head is foggy most of the time.
And I HATE FOOD.I don't want to eat anything at all.I don't want to meet anyone.But this,this force keeps pulling me on,whether I like it or not.I remember ,when I was like 17 or 18,I used to stay awake in the nights trying to figure out as to what the hell was happening to me & reading book after book looking for answers.

But there are no answers.I feel trapped.

https://youtu.be/gE6AVp-2Jic

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2015, 10:38:16 pm »

This reminds me of Waiting For Godot by Samuel Beckett, something like, "I can't go on like this."

ESTRAGON: I can't go on like this.

VLADIMIR: That's what you think.

Quote from: Holden

Schopenhauer was among the first to contend that at its core, the universe is not a rational place.

I agree with Kant's view that human rationality lacks the power to answer questions, since our knowledge is limited by our specific and narrowly-circumscribed capacities for organizing our field of sensation. It is a perennial philosophical reflection that if one looks deeply enough into oneself, one will discover not only one's own essence, but also the essence of the universe.

Edmund Husserl is well known for his critique of the “mathematizing tendencies” of modern science, and is particularly emphatic that mathematics and phenomenology are distinct and in some sense incompatible. In fact, what first got me interested in Husserl was the title of his work, The Crisis of the European Sciences and Transcendental Phenomenology.

Husserl himself uses mathematical methods in phenomenology. The Husserlian doctrines which seem to speak against application of mathematics to phenomenology do not in fact do so. I'm not attacking Husserl. I find his mind fascinating. It's just that we are all bound to make baboons out of ourselves when we go monkeying around with rationalizing an irrational universe, or, thinking we have chained the chaos of thought into logical order simply because we find patterns ...

As Husserl sees it, the mathematization of nature comes to be established by a process of
idealizing the “life-world”. For Husserl, the life-world is the pre-scientific world of simple sensuous intuition. The true being of the world is joined together with the mathematical manifold, systematically concealing the life-world. Science became fully estranged and alienated from its “aboriginal source” (Kockelmans) in the life-world.

It can be thrilling to question the very ground of reason and lean strongly towards madness. I mean, one could just as easily deny that there is even really a "person" that the court addresses when "the State" presumes to inquire if you are in deed "such and such" a person. We play by the voodoo-bs-rules of our society. If we were truly to question the objective world and the whole concept of persons, we might be placed under the authority of psychiatric police.

Maybe this is why I find some comfort in relating abstractions to computer code. I seem to really enjoy putting code in a debugger, stepping through each line of code, watching local and global variables change value, checking the registers to see each step "behind the magic".

There is some comfort in the logic ... being able to follow the logic ... and then there this aboriginal source of the life-world, the body becoming weak when it does not stop to focus on eating some food, taking in nutrients ... dizziness ... heart beating, blood pumping into the veins ... primal being ... we observe processes we are "thrown into and stuck in" and we call these processes "the world" and even "our self" or our body ... and yet one can't separate one's so-called body from the air it breathes. It's all very weird. Truly weird in cosmic proportions. Sorry, I am becoming sleepy all of the sudden and can't seem to make much sense.

I agree with Kant's view that human rationality lacks the power to answer questions, since our knowledge is limited by our specific and narrowly-circumscribed capacities for organizing our field of sensation.

Maybe that's why I like to reflect upon code ... even with just the organic compiler/debugger in my head. I can't get to the bottom of the big picture, but I can observe little processes and understand what is taking place. We just have to try not to be overwhelmed by our own consciousness. Give it something basic and fundamental to meditate upon.

int gcd_positive_subtractive_recursive(int a, int b) {

assert( (0 < a) && (0 < b));

if (a == b) return a;

if (a < b) return gcd(a, b – a);

/* if (b < a) */ return gcd(a – b, b);
}

I like to mentally go through that code and understand why it is ok to comment out "if (b < a)" since , if it is, it will get to that code, if not, it won't.

And what exactly is "it" that is going through the lines of code when it is turned into 1's and 0's that machines understand?

It is actually a human mental phenomenon. OK, granted. At some point, one seems to have to detach from the big picture and ... oh ... sorry ... I am rambling.

Let us not require that we always make sense.

Holden · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2015, 12:26:13 pm »

In the dark night of my soul,you are the solitary twinkling star Mr H.Thank God for you!I do feel as if I am waiting for Godot-something that never arrives.
This world is too much for me,its beyond my capacity for comprehension,I would like to vanish into thin air-pull a Houdini.
But what you write is like balm for my tortured & twisted soul.Like nectar.Verily,I'm addicted to your writing.Its the drug that keeps me from going completely insane.

Two words:Thank you.

https://youtu.be/6iZx3vuKXnI

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2015, 09:15:15 pm »

Don't underestimate the effect your interest has on my even writing anything other than notes to myself. You must be wired in such a way to be receptive to my wavelength. I mean, you're in my orbit. Most would have no interest at all in what I mutter about (and scribble about).

It's kind of cool having someone actually interested in what we think. This is not for the masses.

On some level though, all will be even at least dimly aware of these feelings and ideas, since if one looks deeply enough into oneself, one will discover not only one's own essence, but also the essence of the universe.

lifeless dead

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2015, 10:34:25 am »

Would you consider American Psycho to be a predecessor to the somewhat new genre in horror created by Thomas Ligotti with "My Work Is Not Yet Done?"

Was American Psycho leaning in the direction of "corporate horror"?

and

Have you read Ligotti's MY WORK IS NOT YET DONE yet?

It appears that a man reporting to an office each day is horror enough.

What is one to do? In Pirsig's Lila, it is suggested that the "insane" (** clinically frustrated **) are actually the most authentic members of the society, whereas the "sane" (so-called sane) are merely phonies and actors playing their roles, internalizing their costumes as real, and perhaps even more completely hypnotized.

Who knows? A madman or free thinker must follow Bertrand Russell's counsel if he or she is to stay out of the "hospitals and prisons".

Unnecessary timidity makes the trouble worse than it need be. If you show you are afraid of the herd, you give promise of good hunting, whereas if you show indifference, they begin to doubt their own power and therefore tend to let you alone. Gradually it may become possible to acquire the position of licensed lunatic, to whom things are permitted which in another man would be thought unforgivable. Conventional people are roused to fury by departures from convention, largely because they regard such departures as a criticism of themselves. They will pardon much unconventionality in a man who has enough friendliness to make it clear, even to the stupidest, that he is not engaged in criticizing them. This method of escaping censure is, however, impossible to many of those whose tastes and opinions cause them to be out of sympathy with the herd.

Hence, we become uncomfortable and lacking in good humor. It is customary to assume that, when a person is out of harmony with their environment, the cause must lie in some psychological disorder (morbidity, misanthropy, anti-social, etc.,). This is a complete mistake! Often, nothing but intelligence is required to cause one to be out of sympathy with the herd
______________________________________________________________________________________

** clinical frustration ** is a term I picked up from reading Toltz's Quicksand.

Also, the main character was forever terrified of falling into the either of the two parallel dimensions of modern society: prisons or hospitals.

Holden · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2015, 03:19:56 pm »

Would you consider American Psycho to be a predecessor to the somewhat new genre in horror created by Thomas Ligotti with "My Work Is Not Yet Done?"

I certainly do.I have read MWINYD.I have also read AP,also watched AP-the movie.

Was American Psycho leaning in the direction of "corporate horror"?

Yes it was.

Eventually, does each unit go insane? What if the units were to to insane collectively?
Individual units,yes.All units? No so sure-remember Qualitas Occulta?

What is one to do?
Exactly what you are doing.Live without work,without marriage.
Read/do math the whole day long.Read WWR frequently.
Yes,I am still employed.But there is a reason for that.Unlike the US,there is no Social Security here.
I've done the best I could-I left my job with an MNC,where I made about 5 times I do now ,& joined the "Public Sector".
So I did what I could,given the social conditions here.If you were here & there were Social Security here,you would have found me standing right behind you in the dole queue with my Buddha bowl

I am afraid in the future when the "Public Sector" is also privatised,then I would not know what to do..

Maybe I'll go to the Himalayas.
Sit under the tree ,where Buddha once sat,some 2500 years back..

https://youtu.be/9I5RaJh1yPs

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2015, 08:41:02 pm »

It is good to hear the truth. There are multi-million dollar industries working 24-7 to suppress such revelations. They want the masses cheering for the home team and parroting the usual mantras. To just boycott jobs and marriage, well, it's downright "sick".

There must be some way to punish us so as to discourage others from valuing such truth-telling. Hmmmm ....

cooper

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #11 on:** February 29, 2016, 08:21:37 pm »

“I study mathematics to learn how to think. I study physics to have something to think about.”

“Perhaps the greatest irony of all is not that the square root of two is irrational , but that Pythagoras himself was irrational."

from Funky Mathematical Physics Concepts: The Anti-Textbook* A Work In Progress.

* Physical, conceptual, geometric, and pictorial physics that didn’t fit in your textbook

Holden · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2016, 11:49:55 am »

Geometry and arithmetic are bodies of knowledge concerning position in space and succession in time,but they are neither scientific empirical knowledge,not a matter of mere logical deduction.With this view of geometry and arithmetic,Kant arrived at the idea that we must be able to grasp space and time in a pure,non-empirical way in our minds.Schopenhauer follows suit,and produces his third form of the principle of sufficient reason.The relation between a triangle’s having three sides and its having three angles ,for example,is that the one is grounded in,is sufficient reason ,for the other.But Schopenhauer argues,this relation is not that between cause and effect,and is not that between a piece of knowledge and its justification either.We must distinguish not only the ground of becoming(change grounded in causes) and the ground of knowing(knowledge claims grounded in justifications),but also the ground of being.If we say that a triangle has three angles because it has three sides ,the ground we are referring to is simply the way that space ,ore one facet of it,is.

Mad Dog Mike · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2016, 10:49:11 pm »

I stumbled upon Logicomix while doing a search for "mathematics as forbidden knowledge" ...

logicomix

russell

why I am not a Christian

Holden · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2016, 01:16:48 pm »

That's very interesting.That site is a treasure trove.Most of the people I know are in a "relationship",and I have to accept that sometimes I end up lecturing them about "Anti-natalism".I must appear to them like Gary ,I think.While I agree with almost everything Gary says,I think he need not be so blunt.I think,in the long run, your approach will work better.I need to be more "philosophical".Just saying to people -" Stop Popping Out Kids" is really unphilosophical. Forget the others.It sounds like a fascist slogan. It is unsatisfying.

First off,I am not looking to convert anyone,that's next to impossible anyway.I'd rather comprehend the idea of anti-natalism myself.But not through the slogans,through philosophy.I was reading an interview of Benatar today, he says while he is against breeding,its okay to marry.Sorry ,Mr. Benatar,it is not.Its not okay to even say Hi! to a woman ,to anyone for that matter.
I mean,I can go through my entire life without saying another word to anyone.
I mean,even if I were to consider a seemingly simple task like putting my clothes in a washing machine,I need to think about it about a million times before and if I do it at all.
You know what the problem with Mitchell Heisman’s Suicide Note is? It is not elaborate enough.I want mine to be more elaborate-it think what I write-here-IS my suicide note.
Could it be that it would take me the rest of my natural life to write my suicide note properly,I mean, to make it really elaborate.I would like it to be very comprehensive.

https://youtu.be/txwvrjn3K8k

Philosophers in Rags :: We dive deeper, and come up muddier.

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Author Topic: D-503 (Read 11447 times)

Mad Dog Mike

D-503

Holden

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

D-503: Another Dead End

Holden

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503

Holden

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503

Holden

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503 : Pythagoras himself was irrational

Holden

Ground of Being

Mad Dog Mike

Re: D-503 --- Logicomix?

Holden

Slow Motion Suicide: D-503