Author Topic: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)  (Read 619 times)

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Kaspar Hauser

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DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« on: November 30, 2019, 06:27:14 pm »
None of us are teenagers in a high school for the privileged sons being groomed to be upholders of the status quo, but the film referred to below is applicable to Holden's situation, I think.   What goes on at that level of economic prosperity may extend throughout society, and in varying degrees of intensity in different cultures.    Maybe it is even more brutal when the parents are accusing the already grown man of behaving as a child when that man chooses to study books rather than "serve as a robot" in whatever capacity they so choose.   Who made up these stupid rules about "you are too old to be studying high school or undergraduate mathematics?   What kind of mind fuuck is this?    I will hold my tongue for once.   :-X


 I would not want to push you over the edge, but only to acknowledge that you are at some kind of tipping point, and your feelings cannot be taken lightly.   I hope it does not end tragically, and that you might talk some sense into your family about scheming on a way to slip out of that harness.   (Have they secretly sold you into "slavery"?  A bride would seal the deal, is that it?)  [see Razor's Edge, another great film where a "comic" is able to carry an excpetionally heavy drama.]


My only wish is that you will find your poetry, be it algebraic or philosophic.   

One thing is for sure.   I don't think you will go without some kind of fight, even if that fight is subconscious.   What will the Puppet do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=womRcS38UP8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Wqu-awI7g


I suppose there are those who would want you to be grateful to be in the office and not down in the salt mines.   There are all kinds of tactics those around you might use to "mock" your interests in mathematics or philosophy.  What Nietzsche said about the philosopher dressed in rags back then is true today of the lifelong student of mathematics and programming.

If they think study ends after school is out, after graduation, they must be obtuse, really, or real conspirators with your oppressors.   You will want to revisit topic frequently out of pure interest, and may this be your revenge.    Then again, only you know the Razor's Edge this path might be.   

Maybe in Hollywood, there is the Joker, but in your reality, perhaps he is more the Puppet ... the Puppet who can't help but resist this system you are confronted with on a daily basis, the Puppet with a will-and-consciousness of its own?     Of course, you will have to do what you have to do, but, then again, maybe you are not wired to do as your are told. 

I would not want to steer you into your own grave, Holden.  Nor is physical confrontation always necessary in order to confront your oppressors and tormentors.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 01:01:51 pm by Kaspar Heinrich »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2019, 10:47:34 pm »
Herr Hauser,

I am very thankful for all your posts.During the office hours I do the office work but if I am supposed to do the office work in the off-duty hours too ,then, what is the point of one's being around ,for crying out loud? I am sorry that often I fail to respond to your posts in an appropriate manner but that's only because most of the time I am tired and rushed.

Keep well.I will write soon again.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2019, 11:45:13 pm »
I understand Holden.   I am not sure how this universe constructs itself, but I think that our communications might be of the sort that won't be easily kept track of in space-time.    I'll peck away to preserve any work I have done [in between current explorations/projects].    When I found myself starting to scan one of the "math modules" notebooks, I realized that, I still haven't really made accessible the oh-so-personal pdf copies of the journals I burnt.

You have them, but, now I have been asking myself what it is I am afraid of at this point (as far as putting them in the archives for the future).    I feel that througout some of the earlier journals, notes about my struggle to fit an "intellectual life" in somewhere to the life of a park maintenance laborer might give you a clue as to how you will have to just wait for your mind to discover such moments that you can "follow your bliss".

Do not feel obligated to keep up with any kind of regiment, not when it comes to this discussion board.     I will go about my business, and should you have ANY questions in particular about something specific, then I might see if one of my notebooks might help, or even a section of a notebook.    Then I can upload to the Wayback Machine.

One day I would like to scan all my mathematics notebooks onto the archive so that they will be there for the seeker of tomorrow, even if the poor bastard is stationed on the goddamn moon.     The math will still be worth getting into for someone, and I like to imagine that someone feeling very grateful to me, even as I will be long dead.    I feel I owe it to this particular someone in the future to get these notes archived; but it would take so long, and it may never get done.  I am not in control of anything, just a puppet doing what it does.

I'll preserve them as best as I can, putting in storage were I ever to become homeless again, and then someone might read some make-shift poor man's will to the effect that I would like the notebooks taken to the high school in Lincroft, New Jersey I went to in 1981-1985 so that the Math Department and Computer Science Department might contact Houghton-Mifflin or whoever about the feasibility of a reimagining of the Dolciani series with C++ programming exercises ....  or maybe no publishers will be necessary, and the notebooks themselves could be used for a special experimental curriculum. 

As long as I am still alive, there is the chance I will be able to self-publish the mathematics series simply as my own notes of my interaction with the texts.   It would involve no money or copyright - none of that business shiit.   It need not even be officially stamped with the approval of any established authority of the day.

If I can pull it off before I croak, I will have pulled off something very cool; if not, at least I tried (even though it appears that I am moving in slow motion, another few years and who knows?).   It most likely will not be accomplished by any "business-as-usual" methods ... but by methods a bit more mysterious ...

Also, I understand how difficult it is to get any respect from this world, especially on an intellectual level.   Oftentimes I find it best just to let others claim I am "shot out" or "autistic" or "whatever it takes for them to see my intellect as a harmless joke" --- rather than demand respect.    Sometimes I have to be content with "love," even though I prefer respect.

Holden, people would be more comfortable to see me as "retarded" --- I know that it is maddenning for you, the disparity between your intellect and your social status (position in office and family).    I really think that your own private written observations about your society, yes, even AGAINST your society, even if you are sneaking the notes down during the day and polishing them up at night .... that will be your revenge.

You are fighting for your inner life.   Nothing less.    It's not all black and white.   That is, your body can report to your place of employment, but part of your mind is always going to be there for your personal "amusement" ...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 12:28:06 am by Kaspar Heinrich »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 07:32:56 am »

Herr Hauser,
I was thinking about Dostoevsky,specifically,his novel The Gambler, which he wrote in a great deal of haste due to his own very real debts incurred because of his habit to play the games of chance.

I mention this because I ,though not in debt due to gambling, also ,most of the time write in haste here to you. My life circumstances,perhaps,would never allow me to elaborate things the way I would want to.

I have been and probably would remain, reduced to a line here and couple of lines there. There is nothing much that could be done about it.
From Wikipedia article on Kafka:

 In his later years, Kafka's illness often prevented him from working at the insurance bureau.
Not until he contracted tuberculosis ( is that not rather wryly amusing),and it got so aggravated that he just could not hack it did he leave his job.
As you know at one point of time  I worked as a waiter. And still I wait and I wait.I am the Eternal Waiter. Waiting not for Godot, but for deeper understanding of this existence I find myself in.
I don’t like to confront anyone for anything. Not for nothing is the Tortoise my insignia- I go very slowly and tentatively about everything and I hide within my shell.Only this ailment, it got me from within. I thought it would just be common cold and I would be right as rain in a week or so but no,Cthulu ,in all his might, rose up within my god damn lungs,almost drowned them.
It not like I fell in love with life all of a sudden but I would like to have some measure of control over how I go. I did not like being punched in the gut like that.Only goes to show you that we have exactly zero control over our lives.
Like in the Castle( the novel), I have two assistants ,in the Company. And they do everything but to assist me. It so surreal,its beyond bizarre.
That life could imitate art to this extent.
If it is my fate, to be the bug,then I embrace it, what else can I do?
With Nietzsche, I say, I accept the fate. There is a nice word for it. The fate has my acquiescence(accept something reluctantly but without protest).
Now, being the eternal waiter,I wait for your reply.
Keep well,Herr Hauser.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 10:16:27 am »
Quote from: Holden
Like in the Castle( the novel), I have two assistants ,in the Company. And they do everything but to assist me. It so surreal,its beyond bizarre.
That life could imitate art to this extent.

If it is my fate, to be the bug,then I embrace it, what else can I do?

Yes, it can seem like there is a definite concrete conspiracy to "fuuck with you" ... In the park service, there was nepotism, and so, in the spring and summer, I would end up with a crew which consisted of several sons of the "middle management" ... It was alo quite surreal.   The sons would report the inner dirty laundry, conflicts, chaos in chain of commnad, to their daddies during dinner.

How is it Kakfa captures it?    It may be universal.

I swear, while reading Dostoevsky in Asbury Park, New Jersey, 2014, I felt he could have been writing about that very place as easily as St Petersburg in the 1800s.    Whether the characters are black or white or brown or other, there seem to exist this underhanded politics, where the slumlords have their army of minions to spy on you, harass you, or otherwise "fuuck with your life."

Could it be the same everywhere one goes?   They piiss on your leg and tell you it's raining.

This is the real politics of social animal man.    The conspirators seem to get off on being in the loop.

When everything is rushed, it feels like a conspiracy against allowing you enough time to get your bearings, to keep you off-guard.   

How does it end?   Is one doomed to play the role assigned by Fate?   Is there a way to exist in a detached manner?   And how does society control these social hierarchies?    They test and make the youth jump through hoops.   Some segments of society are trained to be the upholders of the status quo.  What a goddamn farce.    That means the doctors, judges, and others in prestegious positions in society may not have brains so much as no spines.

All who pay deference to the false hierarchy imposed on the natural order by society, I call them "authority worshippers".  (see Mental Illness as Rebellion Against Society).

There is definitely something to this "always feeling rushed."    Even when it comes to education, what is all the education for all those years if one is discouraged from thinking and studying for the remainder of one's life?   Could the schooling simply be obedience training?   That is not education.

----------------------------
While leaving the link to the different spellings of Dostoyevski in the the thread, 33 Myths About the System, I noticed Ibra left a quote by this man who wrote books to pay off gambling debts.   


The idea has occurred to me that if one wanted to crush, to annihilate a man utterly, to inflict on him the most terrible punishments so that the most ferocious murderer would shudder at it beforehand, one need only give him work of an absolutely, completely useless and irrational character.


Fyodor Dostoyevski, The House of the Dead

_______________________________________
an aside:   I can't track down the source, but I definitely recall Schopenhauer stating that society often reverses the natural order of the universe; that is, it keeps in chains that which Nature has made strong ... hence, "Brains in Chains."  (H-71 HEX 5)

You are not as alone as you may feel.  The problem is, if one does not chase the carrots, there is the whip; and today the whip strikes in the form of "starvation" and other "social degradations."   Anyone who does not jump through the necessary hoops will be judged as inferior stock, when, the truth is, some people are just trees with knots, not easily turned into lumber.

Holden, your misery is your resistance, so maybe embrace and explore the nature of your misery, and note when you feel relief … They want you to bring your work home, but you must demand that your free-time is your own, to do what truly interests you, even if it is just reading or napping.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 11:32:17 am by Kaspar Heinrich »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Kaspar Hauser

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 12:04:25 pm »
Holden,

Maybe upon my death, it might be arranged to have my library and notebooks and computers shipped to India (YOU), hand-delivered via my nephew, and you both might set up shop: book dealer, used-computer refurbishing center … with possible transmutation into Thoreau-like School of Pythagoreans come home to where it all began, where the Pythagoreans learned from the Hindus, or, as Schopenhauer referred to as those closer to the origins of our Species.   

Different approaches to education would be appreciated by all those made suicidal by coaching centers forcing them to adapt to the current fast-paced spirit of your complex continent.

It's just a thought, a pipe dream, perhaps. 
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2019, 11:32:16 am »
Herr Kaspar,

I feel honored and privileged to have got the opportunity to have this on-going dialogue with you and I am not exaggerating at all if I were to say you have given my life as much direction as Socrates gave to Plato's.

All of Plato's dialogues with the exception of Laws are about Socrates.

In a very similar fashion, when I dig deep enough behind any serious thought of mine, I find you.While existence is painful for you,as it is for all intelligent creatures, for my own selfish reasons,I would like you to live for many more years and I'd prefer to be gone myself first. You see, I am quite sure that a man of your caliber is very,very rare.

I will keep the idea mentioned in your message in my mind. I really think that this existence may not be all there is.Please note that I would like nothing better than complete oblivion, but I am not sure if that is the case in reality.

It maybe that in the past life you were Schopenhauer and I was one of his unknown disciplines,about whom the recorded history is silent.

And again, maybe we would meet again in,in some shape or form,in another life.

Maybe quite soon I'd write a dialogue wherein you would be confronting one of the gorts. And send it to you for reading.
No,like I said, I would like you to live.And who knows maybe I'd be gone first and wait for you outside the pearly gates.

However, be that as it may,I'd keep this idea of yours in the mind and see how things pan out. My request to you for the present would be to have patience.

There is a computer game, which has three modes. And in the most difficult mode the computer always wins.I played that game once,with the explicit intention of "not winning" but drawing the game and to my amazement, I did draw it. There is no victory anywhere. But we just might succeed in the drawing this wretched game of life.

I don't want anything bad to happen to you due the the shoddy treatment that the gorts dish out to the true philosopher , like an ancient thinker said,I do not want to allow the gorts to sin twice against philosophy.

Take care.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 08:41:12 am »
This video made me think of you,I kept imaging you in place of van Gogh:
https://youtu.be/9Fh_yaNC0rs
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 07:29:36 pm by Sticks and Stones »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Our Beseiged Teutonic Knight
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2021, 09:40:59 am »
I think of Herr Hauser as the Beseiged Teutonic Knight.

He is a true White Martyr.

Let me explain,there are Red Martyrs like  Bruno ,who are physically annihilated for daring to follow the path of truth and then there are White Martyrs like our beseigned Teutonic Knight who has been forced to live a life of pain and suffering because he refuses to bow and scrape in front of employers, though he is more capable intellectually than most of the employees  in the US.

But the employers demands bowing and scraping in addition to official duties and so they have turned him into the White Martyr.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Rise,Sir Knight
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2021, 01:44:31 pm »
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 01:47:53 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Kaspar Hauser

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The Conspiracy Against Ethics and Integrity
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2021, 05:59:33 pm »
Your assessment flatters me, Holden, but this must be the case for most of those who practice unrestrained speech, honest speech, plain talk - paresia?  what Socrates had, what Christ had while chasing out the money changers from the temple.

In Orwell's tale, 1984, they used rats with his face in a cage to break his spirit.

Today, they use low social status, humiliation, degradation, etc.

We just have to reflect upon the countless like us who have been born and died already.  It's pretty much par for the course.   I get those mean-spirited comments from those who think fists decide ethics, something like, "Lookm I don't want to hear any of your philosophy shit right now."

Very Dosteovskian --- the violent malice ignorance displays towards any sign of "intellectual integrity."

It's not just potential employers or their Slave Patrol managers, but a great majority of the general population, everyday folks - "the People" --- yes, the People themselves oppress those who stand up to and face down mobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmR7LE0mp74&list=PLK3hE0qM-n7e75kVFg8Bz91C-gXvHMVJ5&index=2
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: DEAD POETS SOCIETY (The Real Man's Club?)
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2021, 12:58:00 pm »
Well, I really hope the People do not create problems for you every single day.That you manage to get some breathing space.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.