Author Topic: Trouble with Being Cioran  (Read 14436 times)

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Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2019, 03:18:31 am »
Man learns in TV-show, that his fiancé has slept with his best friend, doesn‘t want him anymore, has sold the engagement ring.

Kills himself.

Family says: it‘s the show‘s fault.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6981101/Jerry-Springer-sued-family-man-killed-show.html
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2019, 05:32:47 pm »
Holden,

Thank you for sharing this short horror story. Indeed it is a horror story. Nothing new. One cannot remove oneself from birth. Life is horror as you have said many times.

First of all I don´t think you are a little tortoise that crawls and crawls. I am not the person to tell you how to react in self-defense. But a tree is a weapon, a pen is a knife, a chair is a shield and you can smash
someone´s head with a printer. It is not advisable to understimate you reaction.

Stay safe.

Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2019, 02:06:02 pm »
Thanks ,Senor Raul.This world is a disaster area and what ever political solutions folks might come up with ,are little more than bandaids.

Take care.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2019, 03:38:21 pm »
Holden,

Yes, this world is a disaster area.  The human drama has no solution at all. Even if there is an annihilation of the homo sapiens, well, that does not mean this monstrous experiment will stop. It may be an interruption but not the end of this madness.

This planet is under the rule of sociopaths and psychopaths. Maybe you saw this film, American Psycho where the character Patrick Bateman (Chris Bale) has no empathy for anyone. But also the common people, me, are demonic clowns. We also destroy, plunder, kill and maim. It is in our nature.

Stay safe.

Holden

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To Mr.Ibra
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2019, 12:27:42 pm »
Mr.Ibra,

I quite understand that in an orthodox society like that of the middle-east, it must be very difficult to stay as a bachelor.I want to tell you that Indian society is no less orthodox ,at least my parents  are very much so.

Their heads are full of unexamined and unanalysed assumptions.
In a world such as the one we have got in our hands, who in his right mind, would agree to get married.I believe that marriage is the height of optimism.That the bridegroom is giving a thumbs up to the world,to existence and is agreeing to perpetuate it .Generally speaking,I am not a kind man, but I am not so hardhearted either, that I'd bring forth my own kids in this hellish place. I would much sooner swing using noose.

On second thought, noose is really not how I'd like to go. I would like to turn the existence against itself, and let the stomach, which has digested so many things over the years, digest itself.

Take care.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Silenus

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The Life & Philosophy of Emil Cioran (Hermitix)
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2020, 01:48:05 pm »

"And the strict master Death bids them dance."

Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2020, 06:18:06 am »
So long as the Church was rampant, only the madman enjoyed the favors of the regime, he alone had the right to put an end to his days: His corpse was neither profaned nor hanged. Between ancient stoicism and modern “free thought,” between, say, Seneca and Hume, suicide suffered—aside from the Catharist interlude—a long eclipse, a dark age in fact, for all those who, wanting wanting to die, dared not infringe the ban on putting oneself to death. Cioran
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Nation of One

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2021, 05:23:55 pm »
I found a pdf file of Cioran's On the Heights of Despair

"Why am I on this earth? I feel the need to cry out, to utter a savage scream that will set the world atremble with dread. I am like a lightning bolt ready to set the world ablaze and swallow it all in the flames of my nothingness. I am the most monstrous being in history, the beast of the apocalypse full of fire and darkness, of aspirations and despair. [...] My symbol is the death of light and the flame of death. Sparks die in me only to be reborn as thunder and lightning. Darkness itself glows in me"
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2021, 07:05:12 am »
Herr Hentrich,
Sorry I could not respond sooner. I was bogged down with a great deal of office related work.

I hope your body aches are getting less intense and that you are being able to get proper sleep and eating nutritious food.

I think you would have liked the kind of weather India has, generally,because here,except for the region around Kashmir, winters are not very severe, well, certainly not severe when compared to how cold it gets at your place.
Maybe you could think about getting some kind of inexpensive space heater,if you do not have one already.When I was at a place where it used to get very,very cold, I was making use of two space heaters in the room.

I also hope that you have managed to get back to your mathematical endeavours. I think I am beginning to see how mathematics could be a source of endless fascination.
I think the reason I seek as much solitude as I possibly can is because it is the closest thing to being dead while still being alive, if you know what I mean.

Like your father mentioned your cousin getting promoted at job, my father mentioned a friend of mine, who was with me in the college back in the day.Well, he is studying in Pace Univesity now,which I believe is rather close to where you are.Also he has been given scholarship by his employer( a big consultancy firm).It is the same guy who was trying to get me to join their Whatsapp group. Now, personally I have nothing against the man. When we were studying together, he was one of the few people who helped me out when I was sick( during my pancreatitis related hospitalisation I told you about) and he is quite genial. He also has two kids. He is the only friend of mine whose wedding I attended(in 2011) because he was kind to me during our time together in the college.

I think the reason he wanted me to join the group was because, indirectly, he would have been able to inform me about his scholarship by way of a general message in the group.Anyway, the chatterbox that my dad is, he,I guess,talks to this guy more than I do, and so during one of their converstations he told my dad and he told me.He thought I would feel jealous or something or it would motivate me to work harder in some weird way.
Well, here is how I look at it, my friend maybe closer to you,geographically, I am closer to you “philosophically”, and that matters a whole lot more. Also, I would rather study at “ Hentrich University” than at Pace University.

Take care.


La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2021, 08:59:04 pm »
Free copy of Minority Interest by Martin Butler :
https://www.patreon.com/posts/59465426
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Nation of One

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2021, 07:58:37 pm »
I have been reading Minority Interest very attentively, some parts out loud.  I had taken a look at the book Raul of Paraguay suggested, The Nihilist, and finished it quickly.  The author took a great deal from Ligotti's The Conspiracy Against the Human Race; but, all in all, I could easily identify with the protagonist/author, except for maybe his sexual appetite.  Mine, fortunately, is not so very fierce, thankfully.  It is still there, though.  I won't deny it.  Still, I can use reason to remind me of all the wrong trees I've barked up throughout my life.  Maybe eventually I will lose interest and just be content to "take matters into my own hands."   :-[

Martin Butler has a good grip on the horns of the bull.  Thank you for suggesting this Minority Interest.  It is hard to face all the negative emotions caused by life experiences but reading Butler has given me a little more courage to continue in my defiant manner to maintain a comic attitude of disdain (and even contempt) for the world, in general.

I have been feeling a little more trust in the life processes, and that we might actually experience great relief upon facing our mortality.  I want to take this opportunity to thank you for not pressuring me to construct or publish a book.  I really am after authenticity, and I would not be bothered in the least if all I leave behind are hand-written cursive diaries.  I am not at all embarrassed to reveal to the human world just how beaten-up I feel by life itself.

This is why phrases such as, "Life teaches us not to want it" (Schopenhauer) are so powerful for me.  Life experience, at least my own personal experience, validates many of Schopenhauer's conclusions.

In the end, we will come to our own conclusions about the nature of our existence; but, as you have stated many times, the suffering, confusion, and despair can often be suffocating, paralyzing even.   What can one conclude from this underlying stress and anxiety except that these are the life forces within us manipulating us through FORCE, the force of want and need, the force of desire ... the desire to continue to experience breathing, eating, shiTTing, sleeping ... understanding.

I am honestly perplexed that more people do not think about these things at great lengths.  Why are there not more Ciorans and Holdens?  There is the possibility that there are more introverts out there than we would expect.  It's just that the extroverts bully the introverts into submitting to outer-directed goals.  I like Butler's take on social control and how he makes it very clear that following some of his suggestions will lead others to hate us, to disapprove of us, and to resent us for our refusal to submit to the same oppressors they do.

Be kind to yourselves.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 08:16:15 pm by sentient intestines »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Nation of One

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2023, 03:11:54 pm »
Quote from: Holden
Senor Raul,
I found the following by a  man from  an  African country  who goes  by  the name of Nihilistboy, I'd like to share with you:

A Letter  To  My Unborn Child by  Nihilistboy-

Stay right there,sweetheart.It's not safe here.
Daddy loves you!


Also,my apologies  to  all the members and readers and guests of this message for my random posts-the  fact is  when  I get off the work  I  am so tired  and exhausted that I can  barely find my house ,let  alone the   relevant  thread. I  try my best. But  if someone finds the  posts random,my apologies.

Keep  well,Senor  Raul,please take care   of  your  eyes.


This Nihilistboy hits it on the head, with that.   The Unborn Tribes ...

Daddy loves you!    classic


Also, there are some quotes from the mysterious "Fall into Time":

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/566371-la-chute-dans-le-temps



“If you try to convert someone, it will never be to effect his salvation but to make him suffer like yourself,
to be sure he is exposed to the same ordeals and endures them with the same impatience. You keep
watch, you pray, you agonize-provided he does too, sighing, groaning, beset by the same tortures that are racking you. Intolerance is the work of ravaged souls whose faith comes down to a more or less deliberate torment they would like to see generalized, instituted.  The happiness of others never having been a motive or principle of action, it is invoked only to appease conscience or to parade noble excuses: whenever we determine upon an action, the impulse leading to it and forcing us to complete it is almost always inadmissible.  No one saves anyone; for we save only ourselves, and do so all the better if we disguise as convictions the misery we want to share, to lavish on others. However glamorous its appearances, proselytism nonetheless derives from a suspect generosity, worse in its effects than a patent aggression. No one is willing to endure alone the discipline he may even have assented to, nor the yoke he has shouldered.

Vindication reverberates beneath the missionary's bonhomie, the apostle's joy. We convert not to liberate
but to enchain.  Once someone is shackled by a certainty, he envies your vague opinions, your resistance to dogmas or slogans, your blissful incapacity to commit yourself.”

"Croire qu’il lui appartient de dépasser sa condition et de s’orienter vers celle de surhomme, c’est oublier qu’il a du mal à tenir le coup en tant qu’homme, et qu’il n’y parvient qu’à force de tendre sa volonté, son ressort, au maximum."

[To believe that it is up to him to go beyond his condition and move towards that of superman is to forget that he has trouble holding on as a man, and that he only succeeds in doing so, by stretching his will, his spring, to the maximum.]


“What I discern in each moment is its exhaustion, its death-rattle, and not the transition to the next moment. I generate dead time, wallowing in the asphyxia of becoming.”


“And if Indifference fills him to overflowing, if he makes it into a reality as vast as the universe itself, it is because Indifference is the practical equivalent of doubt, and in his eyes does doubt not have the prestige of the Unconditioned?”


“If man is not ready to abdicate or to reconsider his case, it is because he has not yet drawn the final consequences of knowledge and of power. Convinced that his moment will come, that he will catch up with God and pass Him by, he clings—envious as he is—to the notion of evolution, as if the fact of advancing must necessarily bring him to the highest degree of perfection. Having sought to be other, he will end by being nothing; he is already nothing. Doubtless he is evolving, but against himself, to his cost, and toward a complexity which is ruining him. Becoming, progress: notions apparently tangential, actually divergent. True, everything changes, but rarely, if ever, for the better. Euphoric inflection of the original disease, of that false innocence which awakened in Adam a desire for the new, our faith in evolution, in the identity of becoming and progress, will collapse only when man, having reached the extremity of his distraction, having turned at last to the knowledge which leads to deliverance and not to power, will be in a position to offer an irrevocable no to his exploits and to his work. If he continues to clutch at them, he will doubtless enter upon the career of a ludicrous god or an obsolete animal, a solution as convenient as it is degrading, the ultimate stage of his infidelity to himself. Whatever choice he makes, and though he has not exhausted all the virtues of his failure, he has nonetheless fallen so low that it is hard to understand why he does not pray unceasingly, until his very voice and reason are extinguished.”



“A religion is nothing by itself; its fate depends on those who adopt it. The new gods demand new men, capable, in any circumstance, of decision, of choice, of saying firmly yes or no, instead of floundering in quibbles or becoming anemic by abuse of nuance. Since the virtues of barbarians consist precisely in the power of taking sides, of affirming or denying, they will always be celebrated by declining periods. The nostalgia for barbarism is the last word of a civilization; and thereby of skepticism.”


“A civilization begins by myth and ends in doubt; a theoretical doubt which, once it turns against itself, becomes quite practical. No civilization can begin by questioning values it has not yet created; once produced, it wearies of them and weans itself away, examines and weighs them with a devastating detachment.  For the various beliefs it had engendered and which now break adrift, it substitutes a system of uncertainties, it organizes its metaphysical shipwreck with amazing success when a Sextus is on hand to help.”

"Zadarnic supunem universul și ni-l însușim, atâta vreme cât nu vom fi învins timpul vom rămâne doar niște sclavi."

[In vain we subdue the universe and make it our own, as long as we do not defeat time we will remain only slaves.]


I attempted to attach this PDF of Fall into Time to this post, but there was an Internal Server Error.  Maybe because I am working from the library.   I will never acclimate myself to typing essays on a f-ing smartphone.  No, I am sorry if anyone posting here has to work with such a device.

Without the notebook computers I have had in storage since May, 2022, I am dead in the water, as far as any possible "intellectual projects" go.  I will have to content myself with "intellectual adventures".   There is a good chance the computers are ruined.  I would grab one, but I would have to log in from the library for Internet access.  I can't see myself relaxing with any kind of "work" in the little room I am renting for nearly one grand per month.

It is great that someone like Cioran existed.  He lived in humble lodgings, and some days lived on the scraps left by college students in a local cafeteria.  I will not accept "getting a job" as a solution.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 02:03:16 pm by Kaspar Hauser »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Beckett and His Mother
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2023, 05:01:25 pm »

Beckett's mother was an Orthodox and a staunch Protestant.Probably the battles with the Catholics in the area caused it.

At any rate, when she came to know that Beckett had fallen in love with his cousin living in Germany ,she was appalled and opposed the potential union tooth and nail.

While Beckett was still working as a lecturer in the university,during the holidays, he went to his home to be with his parents.

He was out strolling and  his mother passed by his study table and happened to look into his notebook.What she saw drew her in,but not in a good way.

Beckett had been writing notes and collecting references for what was to become "Dream of Fair to Middling Women".

To the prude mother his notes appeared vulgar and obscene.She got very angry.

The moment he came back she gave him a piece of her mind and told him that he cannot write such things under her roof.

Beckett's father tried to reason with her but to no avail.

That very way,Beckett and his note books were thrown out.

While Beckett ,when his relatives were around him, pretended to take it in his stride,in reality, the unfortunate episode had wounded him very deeply.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Nation of One

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2023, 01:25:43 pm »
Yes, my mother has wounded me deeply; but, at least, in my case, she is aware of it.  That is, my mother has regrets about how she galvanized forces against me with her endless complaints about my "drunkenness" - my loudness, the kinds of sounds I made, whether song or spoken word.

Even not being able to come to see her when I wish, this repeatedly wounds me.  Will I stop caring eventually?   Will I be able to become as Indifferent to my own suffering as others seem to be?
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Trouble with Being Cioran
« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2023, 03:06:29 pm »
Pain is one constant of this existence.Why are ,often, parents driven to wound their own flesh and blood?Because the Will, for intents and purposes, is blind.
My parents torment me a lot. It is one thing that accelerates my suicidal ideation more than anything else.No happy ending for me or for any of us.

Could life be made bearable?
Maybe not for everyone.
Especially not for people who have a head on their shoulders.

I do feel suffocated.
I don't like to exist because it exposes me to all sorts of trouble.

Could a child ,not matter how old, live at peace with himself if he knows quite well that they reject him in toto?

Life is a farce.

Lucia Joyce once threw a chair at her mother because Lucia suspected that her mum was trying to create road blocks for her relationship with Beckett.

When she was diagnosed with Schizophrenia, James was bereft and spent the rest of his life worrying about her and ministering treatments to her.

He never lost hope.
But she never got cured.

Take care.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.