Author Topic: Alternative Theories  (Read 938 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nation of One

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 4756
  • Life teaches me not to want it.
    • What Now?
Alternative Theories
« on: March 22, 2016, 07:39:02 am »
Have you ever found yourself tempted to blend the theory of gortness with the more Ickean theories of the reptile?   Even John Trudell spoke often, in his crazier moments, about the Reptile Predator In Charge.

In Colin Wilson's science-fiction novel, The Mind Parasites, even though the main characters are studying phenomenology as their main strategy for defeating the invaders of consciousness, that seem to be some kind of Lovecraftian [ancient pre-human] race living beneath the floor of the ocean, could the REAL "underneath the floor of the ocean" be THE UNCONSCIOUS, and might the REAL ALIEN be the "civilizing process" itself?  Are we so afraid to behold ourselves for what we have become that we invent these mythological entities that we can blame for "overtaking our consciousness" and manipulating us?

I think the theory of the gort is superior to the theory of the reptilian alien overlord since it places the "enemy" between our very own ears, and not 20,000 leagues under the sea.

 :-*

« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:43:09 am by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 5070
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Re: Alternative Theories
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 03:42:16 pm »
I do get it.What Icke write is mostly metaphorical. Most of his readers,not to mention Forthebirds, view it quite literally. I'd take Schopenhauer over Icke.
The problem with Icke is that he says that there is light at the end of tunnel.And Schopenhauer agrees & says:The Light at the End of the Tunnel Is a Train. :)
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

forthebirds

  • Philosopher of the Void
  • Posts: 125
Re: Alternative Theories
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 02:17:00 am »
I can perhaps give a counter-point to this:
Are we so afraid to behold ourselves for what we have become that we invent these mythological entities that we can blame for "overtaking our consciousness" and manipulating us?

I think the theory of the gort is superior to the theory of the reptilian alien overlord since it places the "enemy" between our very own ears, and not 20,000 leagues under the sea.

I have heard ideas like this brought up before by other people who argue against the so called "reptilian theory," and it is a good one. I do not think I can answer it directly, but I can give my own perspective. Please also remember that it is sometimes difficult for me to use words, let alone words that describe topics of these kinds of levels of thinking. Pathetic to say, but there it is...

What I got after reading several of Icke's books is that the point is not in blaming anything or anyone. Although bringing a cause to light is great in trying to understand parts of "why," the main point I got is "we have to fix this." Did another race of beings come into our world and create the messed up way that we are now? Maybe. But the point is this: we are gorts NOW. And if we wish life of humanity to be "better," we all need to wake up to this realization and somehow bond together and improve.

From this statement above, can you not see that it matters not who is to blame? What matters is fixing the problem. And that can only be done by us.

If, however, you wish to discuss blame, I will say that even though I believe reptilian entities did this to us, I still believe that is was our fault. But that goes much deeper into spirituality and God, which I am not sure you would have interest in. I will elaborate more if requested, but if not, I will say it in these few words. They are not to be taken as fact, I will only state them in that way for simplicity's sake:

We asked for darkness to come into our world so that we could experience what it truly means to be Light. I believe that we, as Gods, created the reptilian race, ages ago.

So now do you see, for one who thinks this way, even if I believe reptilians did this, I still take the blame. The enemy is still between our ears. Think I'm off my rocker? Guess I'm a freak among freaks, as unfortunately, not even most Icke fans seem to get along with me. Oh well. It does not phase me much anymore, since the idea of reptilians has little to do with my overall thoughts on life. They are just other actors in this big play.

Nation of One

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 4756
  • Life teaches me not to want it.
    • What Now?
Re: Alternative Theories
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 09:36:30 am »
Quote from: ForTheBirds
What matters is fixing the problem. And that can only be done by us.

No matter how to describe something, the reality of what it is remains what it is.  I know this is probably a truism, and I sympathize with anyone who has become frustrated with words.  The word pencil is not a pencil ...

One of the math texts I am ever so carefully and slowly going through has a few "journal exercises" at the end of each problem set that attempts to motivate the student to "write about mathematics."  I was enthusiastic about this when I started out, but, do you know what?  I have skipped each one so far!   It is not that easy.  Hence, the exercise.

I will try to be more careful while posting here, as I tend to unleash my confusion, using language as a way to express my frustration (with communication) rather than disciplining myself to "say what I mean and mean what I say."

The confusion arises when I am not so sure what it is I am trying to communicate other than my honest frustration.

In a haphazard and non-calculated manner, maybe this communication HAS been successful since, in more than a few correspondences, Holden and I, you and Holden, and now you and I, have placed right on the table for all to see our sincere doubt in the power of alphanumeric language to represent or communicate "reality". 

This is not a bad thing, in my opinion.  I think it is great that we have this "unwritten understanding" that our words are a finger pointing at the moon, and not the moon itself.

I see the idea of a Reptilian Predator in Charge as kind of useful, and it is certainly not far fetched to take for granted that "the masses" are hypnotized.  After all, when one pecks at the ATM machine for cash, we are not that much different than domesticated fouls pecking a contraption for their feed.  When we hand the cash over at the grocery store, or eliminate the ATM machine altogether, and just hand the cashier the debit card, we do so in a hypnotic manner.

We are dependent upon a gargantuan artifice for our sustenance, and we certainly don't have the confidence of a large wild cat in the jungle that finds its nourishment by teeth and claw.

In this most basic sense one may condemn oneself as a gort, but I think once one has rubbed one's eyes and taken a moment to reflect on the "Indian Reservations", the inner city projects (Village Ghetto Land), the factories, the prisons, the war machine, the extraction of natural resources, etc, one sees this, but one may continue to have a sense of powerlessness to actually do anything but groan in horror.

Welcome to the nightmare?  Welcome to the Taker Prison?

It really has more to do with the behavior of the masses, and there is little one can do to stop this species from driving off the cliff into extinction.  And all she wants to do is dance ... and all I want to do is study math ... hysterical.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:59:03 am by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

forthebirds

  • Philosopher of the Void
  • Posts: 125
Re: Alternative Theories
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 01:35:58 am »



I think I will always prefer the silence of just being.. over thoughts and words. But still, this is what we have to work with if we wish to communicate, so here we are.

I say do what you want here. Keep saying what you want how you want. It's your space. My own are usually kept on this computer I type on. They stay on my desktop in notepad form. I read them from time to time and find it very therapeutic (edit: wow, that was bleeped. go figure) later as it seems like I forget what I wrote, and am hearing teachings for the first time. Eventually, though, the desktop becomes cluttered. I move the files to a folder called "desktop cleanup." I found out several months ago that I have multiple folders with that title. Then I remember that I deleted others before it...

Let's see if I can try to find an example...





ok God. talk to me.

well it's about time!

yeah well I'm in pain so help me out here, please.

you need to come to the realization of what I have been telling you for a long time. that not everyone was meant to stay with you forever.

so what then, was she an angel sent to me to light up my life and bring some sort of lesson or experience so that I can better myself?

that's a possibility.

well why did it have to hurt like HELL! if she was an angel sent from heaven, why the **** does it have to hurt like hell when she left me?

it doesn't!

well ****, god, seriously, I'm getting really tired of these "angels" coming into my life and **** things up!

you sound angry

I am really **** angry! for the first time in my life I think I'm really **** ANGRY WITH YOU.

I noticed you changed the word "AT" to "WITH"

what of it.

It wasn't just for grammar.

... you sense that I am finding some sort of connection to You by subconsciously choosing to use that word instead..

it's a possibility

I seriously don't know if I'm even talking to you anymore. I don't know if I'm just making **** up. it hurts so much. God it hurts so much. please just make it stop.

the only person making things hard on you... is you.

...it feels good hearing that after that long cry.

I know. but don't forget it. you keep forgetting it, so I keep reminding you. and it isn't Me who's doing this to you. you're asking Me to do it. you keep forgetting and your higher self keeps asking to remember. remember this lesson: not everyone was meant to be with you until the day your body dies. and you need to be ok when someone wishes to let go. you need to be ok with it, especially if you say you love them.

God, I feel... really good right now, hearing this and feeling these words. really. like it doesn't seem to hurt me right now. can you please help me stay in this area of realization?

that's what I am doing.

no, but I mean in this realization of not feeling pain, in this... "area of knowing." God can you please help me stay in this area of knowing?

I am all knowing. you wish to be like Me?

yes, I guess I do.

then you know the meaning of life!

sigh... thank you God, but I'm not really in a philosophical/spiritual/existential mood right now.

maybe you should be..

oh you. you're so funny, you..

I am everything.

then so am I. and I will do my best to choose to be ok with letting go.

I would suggest that you not try to do, but just be.

ok... so help me, God.

ask and you shall receive.

It's done. I can feel the change. It feels quiet. Solemn.

stay with it.

Nation of One

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 4756
  • Life teaches me not to want it.
    • What Now?
essay by Bob Corbett on The Mind Parasites
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 07:55:56 am »
essay by Bob Corbett

Quote
The strange and inexplicable suicide of Karel Weissman and the discovery of a gigantic city some two miles beneath earth combine to provide narrator Gilbert Austin with the beginnings of a weird tale of inner beings and some ultimate threats to human existence and advancement. Among many odd details of Weissman’s suicide is a note indicating that Austin should receive his papers immediately. Austin is justly curious as to what is there, but it ends up taking him many months to discover Weissman’s secrets. In the meantime Austin teams with Wolfgang Reich and these two archeologists add to Weissman’s work in psychology to unearth the world of the mind parasites.

Colin Wilson’s challenging and entertaining novel is both a sci-fi romp into the improbable, but a philosophical tour de force of the existentialist problem of authenticity. I was fascinated and disappointed by turns, but couldn’t stop turning pages, often amused by what was going on and at times frustrated, almost angry at Wilson for letting us humans off so easily. There is a bit of a surprise ending, so I will leave these comments somewhat incomplete and not fully rounded to Wilson’s tale. I don’t want to ruin someone else’s read.

Weissman’s journals and the world of Gilbert and Reich discover the existence of these mind parasites; beings living deep in each individual psyche and limiting the human exercise of the mind. It some way that never becomes fully clear the mind parasites sponge off human energy and were the humans to exercise full clear control over their own minds they would know the mind parasites were there and would defeat them, driving them out, which Gilbert and Reich eventually set out to do. However, as it exists now (the setting of the novel is the year 2012 and the book was written in 1967), the human is only able to use a tiny tiny fraction of the power of the mind, being inhibited by these parasites.

For those familiar with the movement of existential philosophy this is the problem which Martin Heidegger first made famous with his 1927 work BEING AND TIME and in 1942 Jean-Paul Sartre approached it from a slightly different perspective in BEING AND NOTHINGNESS. Wilson is quite aware of these works and has even written a work on “New Existentialism” a movement of which he is a self-named member. In the work of the existentialists there are no hidden beings. Rather, humans, on Heidegger’s account because of basic laziness and lack of intellectual skill, do not take hold of their own lives, examining the meaning of existence and making their own choices. Rather, the strong tendency is for humans to act out of habit, tradition, learned behaviors of our families and cultures, from religion and various other modes, all of which evade the personal human responsibility for our own choices. The existentialists generally unveil this hidden mode of what they label as “inauthentic” living and urge humans forward to take control of their own lives in an “authentic” personal responsibility. Not all thinkers are convinced that all humans can or will actually do this. Fyodor Dostoevsky the mid-19th century novelist and early existentialist has argued powerfully that the great mass of humans will never take such responsibility and the world is divided into the tiny minority of people who will take responsibility for themselves and others and in so doing will disburden the rest of the masses who much prefer to turn over this personal responsibility for security and evading the terror and hard work involved with it.

Given that Wilson and I share a common background of deep commitment to and interest in the existentialists, and both of us clearly share the notion of authenticity as a human virtue to be aimed at, I was in great measure saddened, even disgusted by his device of using the mind parasites to account for this phenomenon of humans not taking full personal responsibility for their own minds. In the contemporary literature there are a number of theories which most of us are aware of which explain this human lapse from taking full conscious responsibility for ourselves:

- The existentialist analysis I mention above.

- The Freudian view that the human unconscious is responsible for much of our action.

- The common view especially of our own time that we are fixed by our past and our very early learning and are virtual slaves to our upbringing, and if not fully incapable of acting freely and responsibly on our own, then we are at least deeply limited by our past.

What frustrated me in Wilson’s analysis with the mind parasites is that the entire notion of the mind parasites brings in outside beings who are the responsible agents and not us humans. This seems a complete caving into the notion that humans are either not capable of human freedom and responsibility, or at least drastically limited.

But, one can certainly view the fight of Austin and Reich to lead humans to defeat the mind parasites and reclaim their minds as an exercise in authenticity.

Once we get to the TOOLS to be used to fight the mind parasites I simply burst out laughing aloud. When the existentialist movement came into the intellectual world in the earliest days of the 20th century Heidegger, Sartre and other were deeply influenced by the work of Edmund Husserl, the developer of the method of inquiry called Phenomenology. So are Austin and Reich and they decide that the only “scientific” tools capable of combating the mind parasites are the principles and practices of Husserlian Phenomenology. This had me alternating between giggles and out right belly laughs as I recalled back my graduate school days of the 1960s when I struggled under the guidance of Professor Herbert Spiegelberg to grasp the extremely difficult and esoteric moves of Husserlian Phenomenology. Here we have a novelist instructing us readers in Phenomenology so we can follow the path of Austin and Reich as they begin to enlist other scientists in the up coming Phenomenological war against the mind parasites.

At least Wilson had the common sense to know he could not really instruct us readers in the details of Phenomenological analysis so we get the window dressing without the details. But after living some 36 years as a professor wedded to Phenomenology as a philosophical method, knowing it was far from being a popular or dominant school of thought in the modern American intellectual world and seeing how difficult it was over the years for me to teach even the most basic rudiments of the method to undergraduates, I felt vindicated to see Colin Wilson saving the whole of human kind with Husserl’s theories!!!

However, at this point the novel does spin off into some rather wild sci-fi fiction. Austin and Reich and another few dozen of their disciples use their Phenomenology (a form of it I never saw in Husserl!) to learn psycho-kinesis and other tools of the occult and the mind parasites are soon on the ropes.

What will not ruin anyone’s read is to realize that the humans sort of do defeat the mind parasites in the end, but even that is a bit confused. Wilson seems torn between defeating these foreign beings and in sticking to the Dostoyevskian notion that most humans are hopeless and will never embrace freedom and responsibility for their own lives with all the hard work which that implies.

I have never been a strong fan of sci-fi type novels. There are often exciting logics of alternative worlds that don’t operate by the rules of our world, and that is fun and challenging. Yet, as occurs in Wilson’s novel, there are often inconsistencies which are glossed over in the telling, but, if one has a nagging and rather compulsive sense of logic and consistency which I seem to have, then such inconsistencies are bothersome. Such inconsistency is central to this work since Wilson never fully makes up his mind if the mind parasites are actually independent beings which are tied to humans in a symbiotic necessity, or if they really don’t exist at all, but are a trick of our own minds. At times the logic of the story flows in one direction and at other times in the other, and these are flatly contradictory. Given that actual physical events of this psycho-kinetic war take place against the mind parasites in some parts of the novel, he is strongly committed to their actual independent existence. Thus, when later in the novel the author seems to switch gears to deny all this, the logic of the work is in deep question.

I’ve limited my remarks to the centrality of the battle with the mind parasites and the critical role of Husserlian Phenomenology in this battle. That is quite fair to the novel. Yet two other themes come out here and there throughout the novel, and though they aren’t developed in detail and thus leave little for me to say about them, there is enough mentioned of them to intrigue. These are Carl Jung’s notion of a collective unconsciousness which is itself something beyond the sum of individual consciousnesses of each of us, and the evolutionary work of the French Jesuit Teilhard de Chardin who also saw evolution moving beyond the individual human as the central “entity” of humanity and pointed toward a notion of cultural consciousness as an independent existence. I wish Wilson had developed those themes. They are fascinating speculations.

Colin Wilson is a learned man and fills this novel with references to various philosophers, psychologists and natural scientists in such a way that one can’t help but be impressed with the breadth of his knowledge. The Mind Parasites is a very fun book to read and philosophically challenging to boot. I recommend the book to all serious readers.


If this interests you, you may want to investigate a post in a thread called Agent Smith - Matrix
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:45:51 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Nation of One

  • { }
  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 4756
  • Life teaches me not to want it.
    • What Now?
Mind Parasites Revisited (Guerilla Phenomenology?)
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 08:45:04 pm »
From Awaken in the Dream:


It is important to know what we are up against; as the adage goes, “know your enemy.” If we do manage to connect with the light within ourselves and try to share our light with others, these nonlocal vampiric entities (what I have in previous writings called “nonlocal demons,” or NLD for short), will try, via their “connections” to the nonlocal field, to stop us by influencing other people to turn against us. Austin writes, “they [the mind parasites] knew how to use other men against us, and this was the real danger.” When someone begins to wake up, it is as if the forces of darkness, through the “control system” built into society and its institutionalized structures—which have become internalized within people’s minds—becomes alerted and mobilized in such a way as to make sure the person who is becoming aware of the operations of these inner adversaries and beginning to remember who they are gets taken back down, silenced, and put back to sleep. The mind parasites are able to "draft" unsuspecting others to become portals through which these forces can exert their influence into our world so as to seduce, distract or obstruct us from our path. People who are asleep to these nefarious forces unknowingly become enlisted to be the zombie-like foot-soldiers of the mind parasites, unwittingly serving their agenda of making sure no one steps out of line.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:47:27 pm by Non Serviam »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

  • { ∅, { ∅ } }
  • Posts: 5070
  • Hentrichian Philosophical Pessimist
Re: Alternative Theories
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2018, 11:01:02 am »
Venerable Herr Hentrich,

I might be an atheist Herr Hentrich but when I witness your kindness towards me in your posts, I almost start to believe that a benign deity does exist. I have learnt the most important lessons of my life from you. The idea is not to be afraid of anyone or of anything. Being afraid feels awful. Awful.

I do not want to continue to be afraid. Fear must be defeated. These fours years have been very important to me-I have become a stronger (mentally) man.
This is message board is very precious. An oasis in the midst of desert. They want to humiliate a man so much that he ends up losing all self-respect.

I think Schopenhauer was right,I mean, everything that you can see around you is made up of Will. I am made up of will. I am a freak  alright, a persecuted ,lonely freak.I wish there were more people like you Herr Hentrich,unfortunately,there are none. I feel cornered.They are legion. Well, you remember the Schopenhauer biography which both of us bought-I was reading it today again.Though he lived till ripe old age,he also had to put up with a lot of mental anguish. They depict him as a “tough guy” but I know that he was a highly sensitive    and  emotional man.

Is Liggoti still around? I think he does the right thing-he stays hidden. There is danger everywhere.The Mind Parasites book which you mentioned,well, I would certainly try to read it,but so much depends on circumstances,does it not? What is there in the world that makes one wish to stick around?

You know when I was a school kid,on rainy days,the mini-bus which was supposed to pick us up ,well, sometimes it used to break down & while the other kids waited for their parents to send an alternative,I used to start walking all by myself,I must have been in grade III or IV,and my house was a good 5 miles away.When I reached home, I was wet and dirty & my guardian used to get amazed but I derived a terrific sense of independence out of the whole episode.I never bothered about getting wet or lost. I was quite a little tramp.

Never really felt at home since birth here.Sure reasons varied at different stages of my life but they were little more than pretexts. By the way, I am in the middle of van Gogh’s biography by Naifeh Steven- a very good book. I always identified with him.Not talent wise,just misery wise.

Well, my dear friend, that is all for now,I really wish I could shake hands with you.As that’s not possible ,I follow Vincent & say to you-
A handshake in thought!

Ever yours,
Holden
P.S.: I will try to write again as soon as I can,as much as I can.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 12:09:55 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.