Author Topic: Aesthetic Comtempletion  (Read 4071 times)

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Holden

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Aesthetic Comtempletion
« on: May 08, 2016, 03:27:46 pm »
What happens when a look at a Dutch Still Life painting while listening to classical music?
Can it subdue the WILL?
https://youtu.be/ho9rZjlsyYY
https://youtu.be/CShopT9QUzw

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La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Elder Warrior Gorticide

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 10:56:42 pm »
schopenhauer

Is it true that Schopenhauer listened to Rossini?   He thought Wagner was more of a poet than a musician ... and yet Wagner had said reading Schopenhauer's World as Will and Representation was one of the most life-changing experiences of his life.

I still remember discovering Schopenhauer for the first time ... How is it that no one had told me about him?   How is it that no one had heard of him?   

How he was silenced ... too dangerous?  too truthful?

Ah!

And here I am ... I don't care for Rossini, and I'm not sure what Schopenhauer would have thought of Alice in Chains ... we are who we are and it is what it is  ...

nutshell

down in a hole

music to die to ...

« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 11:07:59 pm by Kaspar Hauser »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

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Holden

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In Memoriam K.T.:A Time for Choosing
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2016, 08:20:14 pm »
As a student I came across numerous poseurs with regard to mathematics-their objective of studying mathematics was not to develop better mathematical understanding but it was,in truth,a means to an end-of impressing girls,making other guys look inferior,of getting a cozy (is there such a thing?) job.Bottomline?If one studies mathematics as a way to further the cause of the WILL,one is deluded.How?There is a fundamental problem here which these "oh-so-smart" people just cannot see & it is this- these people can never truly appreciate mathematics,its because the WILL is smarter than the lot of them put together,the WILL say”My Good Adherents,I’m impressed that you would go to such lengths to please me,but let me make things simpler,more direct,more immediate for you,why not go to the nearest pub,get drunk & copulate with the first woman who consents?”

And after that these adherents of the Will-to-Live are shuffled off like an empty bottle of water which is thrown away casually by a thirty man once he has consumed the contents.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/education/kota-suicide-helped-many-come-out-of-depression-but-not-myself/story-u1IRTdSFJoGuaIjvN7igSK.html
(Here such news articles are commonplace,& still they won't stop to reproducing..I could so easily have been there myself..)
NO!I refuse to see mathematics as a means to serving the WILL  & if that were the only option then I’d gladly shun mathematics itself.But there is another way-mathematics as ART,in defiance of the WILL!

Godel died of starvation-complete denial of the WILL,I read somewhere that he fought with his college librarian in order to get the math books transferred from the science to the ART section.
That poor girl,well,I'm going all in..come what may.

https://youtu.be/4onGKsPteWc

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« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 09:28:20 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2016, 09:40:54 pm »
Quote
Godel died of starvation-complete denial of the WILL,I read somewhere that he fought with his college librarian in order to get the math books transferred from the science to the ART section.

That's shocking.  I really do appreciate your insight, Holden.  I am shocked that Godel died of complete starvation, and a little stunned that he fought with the librarian to have the math books moved to the art section.  I remember a certain young librarian who would tease me (in an almost flirtatious manner) about my interest in mathematics.  Oh my god, the sexual fantasies that the Will whispered to me about her!

Fortunately for me, I seem to frighten women with my utter lack of ambition to make money or lift weights.

Quote
As a student I came across numerous poseurs with regard to mathematics-their objective of studying mathematics was not to develop better mathematical understanding but it was,in truth,a means to an end-of impressing girls,making other guys look inferior,of getting a cozy (is there such a thing?) job.

Yes, for many years after high school I think I was purposely sabotaging such a life.  I certainly never wanted to be one who wanted to make others feel inferior.  A full ten years later I was bitten by the mathematics bug, which is when I began to become interested in computer programming where it could be used for mathematical computations.   From sitting on tractors all day and cleaning toilets and collecting garbage - not that I ever felt denigrated or oppressed by this, I treasured the nights I did not collapse on the sofa so that I could study math.

I had a live-in concubine at the time, and she was very threatened by what she called "The Hermit".  The way life unfolds, I see some things more clearly in hindsight.  I was not so much trying to escape my life as a maintenance worker so much as I really had become interested in the math, not as a means to an end, but just for the enjoyment of exploring such things.

Whereas in high school I may have been rebelling against what I thought was expected of me, I threw the baby out with the bath water ...

Even after I was released from my position as a state slave, when I was sent to college, I was still unsure about any destinations.

I think it is for real this time.  For sure, I seem to be "too far gone" to even approach the world of jobs.

I strongly rebelled when I was 17, and I was in a "college prep" school.  I won't go into details.

Like the girl who killed herself at age 17, I also tried to end my life at 18, after high school ... but I was revived.

What that girl was going through is what I am talking about when I scorn the way mathematics and science is pushed too much at that age.  Imagine if music was pushed that way.  No one would want to play music!

I am taking mathematics back as art.  In fact, in order to relax myself while working through problems, I imagine a child with some crayons.  No one is forcing him to draw circles perfectly or draw his line oh-so-very straight.

So what if I have to look at the solution to figure out how to solve the problem.  I'm just trying to have fun with this.

You see, that girl and I are in opposite situations.  She felt pressured to study science, and that is terrible, for sure.  I almost hated it at that age.

For me, since my role is really to drink myself to death or just get some redundant job in Bizarroland, my studying math is a revolutionary act of defiance.   

I do sympathize with the youth.  It must be quite overwhelming.  At that age, I would have welcomed a two-year pause (that did not involve incarceration).  While the gorts and their elected/appointed officials would never take any of my suggestions seriously, I would suggest, as an alternative to joining the work-force, or the military, or going into debt studying something you're not entirely enthusiastic about (or suicide or prison), perhaps, if there even is a future, maybe a certain percentage of students would prefer and benefit from a couple years of "basic wilderness survival" camps, where they would learn very essential skills that might give them confidence when facing the prospects of long-term unemployment, homelessness, tent cities, refugee camps , you know, the ugly side of "civilization".

They could learn how to build primitive (life saving) shelters, gather rain water, find edible plants or learn how to live on just rice.  Maybe some would even want to learn "advanced placement fire making".

They could fast with supervision ... detaching a little bit from all this pressure and competition.

They could be hauled out from the inner cities into the mountains BEFORE they end up fodder for the prison system or the military ... or .. what is there for the youth, anyway?

Can you blame Kriti Tripathi?  It is a tragic end.   Is it better to end one's life or just live in ambitiousless peace?

 :-[

As a female, what were her choices?  What was expected of her? 

From her point of view, maybe this world's terms were making life unworthy of her.

 I know here in the USA there is a great push for women in the sciences.  As it is, far more women graduate from the universities than men.  Maybe it's a "North American Wild West Thing" ... since the natives considered book learning to kind of feminize the men.  They said that when a man from their tribe was sent to "the white man's schools", he came back useless ... worse than useless.  There may be a mystique still about too much education making a man think too reasonably and not impulsive enough for physical confrontations that require quick responses.

Nontheless, there is a general consensus that math, science, engineering, and computer science are dominated by men.  Hence, the aggressive campaign to encourage women to enter these fields.  I have one younger cousin's daughter who was a math major and now teaches math.  Another cousin's daughter is a computer science major.  She isn't into the social scenes and is content to tinker with math.  It certainly isn't for everyone.  I wonder if a tendency to isolate makes one more suitable for such pursuits.  That could be said of writers too though.

It must be difficult to commit oneself to such a lifestyle as a career or vocation.  I have a niece who was some kind of prodigy pianist, but she is studying nursing to pay her bills.  Anyway you look at it, even with my disdain for psychology and psychiatry as professions, I have to point out that our mental health will impact any "choices" we make.  In other words, our lives can fall to pieces no matter how rational our choices may be.  My own life has been one long series of disasters, so I just kind of smirk when someone appears to have their shiit together.  Life can go down the tubes quite unexpectedly even when we are ever so carefully avoiding "trouble".

So this Kriti Tripathi had great resentment against those running the coaching institutes?

In the note, the girl has urged the government of India and human resource development (HRD) ministry to shut coaching institutes as soon as possible. “They suck,” she wrote.


She did not want to participate.  It's a shame it had to come to that.  She must have been quite a philosopher.  I remember being 17.  It was a very dramatic time of my life.  We were the first class to be required to take "Computer Science".  I didn't like computers.  I only liked the programs that computed the Pythagorean Theorem and stuff like that.  That was kind of cool.  I like to write in cursive with a pen, and I did not like seeing my words typed up by the machine.  I wanted to join my ancestors.

As a youth I must have been considered a "resource".  I even resented my grandmother referring to me as a "natural resource" ... as though it was somehow my duty to haul the cart of civilization.  My grandfather would bust my chops, asking, "What are you going to do, live in a tent?"

Maybe he had a dim recollection of being forced to study science by his strict parents.  His father committed suicide.  All is not well in the Industrialized World.  There is a tremendous amount of mental anguish underneath the farce of polite society.

Isn't it ironic that, now that I have nowhere to go and nothing to do, now that I am, for all intents and purposes, a deadbeat, my main hobby is tinkering around like a mad scientist?

RIP KT.

If only teenagers were encouraged to take more naps!

Do you think that naps are beneficial when the brain is feeling overwhelmed?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 01:32:55 am by Nobody »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 11:30:20 pm »
I keep thinking of the mind set and "culture of success" which contributed to this girl's leap to her death, and I see why I am spared from the torment she experienced when facing the prospects of studying  "math and science".

You see, in our youth we are allegedly studying so as to lead us to some kind of fulfilling career. 

At my age, when I already know I am not going anywhere, I can't be wounded or mocked by those who smugly say, "all that studying is not going to get you ANYWHERE.  You are just wasting time.  You would be better off hanging wallpaper or repairing lawnmowers."

But, you see, I do not intend to go anywhere.  In fact, I might not have ever wanted to get ANYWHERE in the first place.   Now it is simply a matter of observing myself doing the "work" without any desire for recognition or status.  I really do feel as though I am defying the great conspirators.  How dare I?   How dare I spend my days this way!   How long do I think I can go on studying like this before I am forced into the streets and out into the fields?

There is something very creepy about our world.

Math and Science are forced upon the youth who are to aspire to become "future scientists".

There must be many others who continue to study independently besides those who are looking to develop some "transferable skill" ...

I don't need to be certified by Microsoft.

There is just something so defiant about living as an independent scholar studying the art of mathematics just as a way to endure time. 

Life itself is a penal colony.  This is how I am doing my time.

There is something very powerful about being an outsider and not wanting to be an insider.

I wonder how many others are studying independently and not at all concerned about all their efforts leading nowhere.  There may be very many, like me, who are so detached from the dominant culture's values, that we reach a point where we just take our education into our own hands.

Tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock

To the others, we appear to be goofing off, but our goofing off is methodical, an intensely calculated kind of goofing off ... developing our math skills for our own amusement.  They've lost us ...

elp

Do you think that studying mathematics, specifically the "scientific and engineering" kind of mathematics, simply for the sake of understanding it better, can be viewed as an act of defiance against the meaninglessness of existence and total disgust with the entertainment (including sports, of course) industries?   The music industry, Hollywood, sports arenas, Olympic Games, all cakes for the masses making a mockery of the philosophical and contemplative thinkers who scorn those who consider themselves "in charge", the businessmen and politicians, as mere philistines.

 It just feels like I have to defy so many norms in order to pursue this obsession with passion.   It makes me question the entire social order. 

If this discipline requires so much time, so much devotion, why is it that there is such social pressure to "be productive" or, for the youth, even to join the military as a duty to "the nation"?

Is the study of math and science only considered a good thing if it is in the service of the military or the corporate state?  If it is pursued with a passion with no prospects of gainful employment, maybe studying mathematics is then seen as a mental illness, as the symptom of some antisocial tendency.

"Why aren't you cheering for the team?  Do you think you are "too good" to work for McDonald's?  They wouldn't even hire you to clean their toilets unless you shaved off the beard your so religiously attached to!"  (they want to humiliate and denigrate you)

Does anyone see the tensions between the call to productivity and the drive for intellectual development?   Surely not all those who study science and engineering are going to be designing bridges or collecting data in some lab about the latest virus.

I wonder just how many of those who are encouraged to study math and science in their youth end up becoming even more obsessed with it as they age and realize that their society would just as soon lock them in a cage for stealing bread than to see them "indulging" in intellectual pursuits (dodging employment, protective of personal liberty ... and autonomy ...)

Here is the irony of the modern industrial world.  The technological development depends on mathematics and science, but the population tends to be anti-intellectual.  If one becomes obsessed with studying, one becomes practically useless to the captains of industry.

Not everyone who works with computers wants to build websites or manage databases.

If someone is autodidactic and philosophical and disinclined to follow orders, that is, if someone is not submissive, that person would not be welcome in the job-oriented cultures that hire scientists.  So what happens to all the rejects and refusenicks?   Surely their passion to solve problems and develop as thinkers does not die simply because they are outside industry and academia.

Does anyone notice the aristocracy represented by the academic institutions?

It's all political.

I'm sick of being defined by professionals.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 11:18:46 pm by Nobody »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2016, 04:10:07 pm »
Señor Nobody,
You write "To the others, we appear to be goofing off, but our goofing off is methodical, an intensely calculated kind of goofing off ... developing our math skills for our own amusement.  They've lost us ... ". I think,Herr Hentrich, that your goofing off is more useful to develop your creative thinking while the others goof off in trying to pretend they are doing something "useful". Once I asked a teacher of philosophy who is more useful to society, a garbage collector who works almost at midnight with no gloves for protection risking his life or the soccer coach who makes millions by entertaining the masses every Saturday and Sunday? No answer. I have been told often that everyone must contribute to society so that in the future I will be remembered. As I contribute nothing to society, society will give me nothing. I am not a genius and I have no mission to fulfill. I am considered to be a life wasted. So be it. As I read your comments and also Mr.Holden´s comments when you mention that you started early in seeing how creepy the world is, I admire you. I woke up too late and at 48 and I see that I have been lethargic all this time. Take care of yourself. Raúl

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 08:24:43 pm »
It sounds like you would benefit from a strong dose of Cioran.

I tracked down The Trouble With Being Born in Spanish. 

In fact, I think I will send the pdf to my nephew in South America ... It may encourage him to read the English and Spanish side by side.

Del inconveniente de haber nacido

There are some gems in there.  I remember finding it in the library (the English edition) back around 1992 or 1993.  I thought I would have access to an endless chain of such works, but it turns out they are a great rarity.

I assure you that reading Del inconveniente  de haber nacido will help you get over these feelings that your life in particular is some kind of failure.

Cioran points out that it is Life itself that is the failure. 

Like I said, I still remember how I felt picking that book up and taking it home (at around age 25 or 26).  I was a maintenance worker at the time, not that this makes any difference.  I have always been accused of wasting my life, wasting my "potential".   

It's ok not to be ambitious.  I think that we have it backwards these days as far as ethics and morality goes.  Ambition is not a pleasant quality.  It's kind of ugly, actually. 

That's why my goals for private studying are humble.

Take care of yourself down there.

Paz.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 08:46:23 am by Nobody »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Elder Warrior Gorticide

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 09:59:10 pm »
Note also that I am well acquainted with the feeling of inadequacy and incompetency.

Example:  As I mentioned somewhere in one of my recent posts here, the USB charging port on my mother's Kindle DX (2009 model?) was damaged, and no technicians want to attempt the operation to replace it because of the risk involved in damaging it in the process.  I would have preferred paying someone than investing in the tools to attempt it myself (just for this one job).  I have to take the risk, for without the charging port functioning there is no way to charge the device, and once the battery is out of juice, the device will be useless.

I get flustered easily.  Even the minimum required tools (micro screw driver PH00, prying tools, tweezers, soldering iron, flux, solder, desoldering wick) runs to be about $60.  Depressing situation, but nothing compared to what my brother-in-law suffered today in surgery ... where half his mouth will have no feeling, leaving him with a permanent frown.  So, as you might imagine, I feel somewhat ridiculous being the least bit "overwhelmed" with the prospect of opening up an electrical device and trying to solder a replacement component onto the board.

My own troubles don't seem worth mentioning, and maybe even not worth the trouble for someone else to read.   Why do I write then?   I guess I am just trying to communicate the general sadness and disappointment involved in day to day life.

I confess these ridiculous psychological anxieties to reassure you that not everyone is made of steel, and that even the little things can make us feel like infants with wet diapers.

When I become very depressed for no reason, I escape into mathematics ...

I can study even when I am depressed ... I don't have to fake enthusiasm.  It is not a requirement that I act as if my own personal life makes any sense whatsoever.  My life, your life, Holden's life, anyone's life ... it does not have to make the least bit of sense.  There is no reason or purpose to any of this.  Don't let anyone fool you.  None of it makes any sense. 

As for little challenges, it will be good to have some small screw drivers around and a few other little tools.  I guess I ought to be ashamed at my lack of a tool collection.  So many books, and so few tools.  what kind of a man am I?   :-\   A useless intellectual?   8)

I sure am glad I instinctively acquired the hard copy actual books I want to study.  I would not feel comfortable depending on an electronic contraption in order to access the books I have chosen to focus on.

I understand how one could be disappointed in oneself, especially if one is sensitive.  Get lost in your own little world.  Don't be too hard on yourself.

Maybe that's one of the benefits of my new passion for studying math.  I have always been intimidated by physics, so I am preparing for it.  This time it's personal.

I have also always been intimidated by micro-devices.  I was very much into tinkering with desktop computers for years ... but I am intimidated by little devices.  I'll just face my fears.

I planted a little garden ... You would be surprised if you could see into my mind while I was planting, filled with doubts even over something so basic.

Being alive is not pleasant.  I would not cut the mustard as a soldier.  I do not perform well under any kind of pressure whatsoever. 

One thing I do like about my so-called personality or temperament is that when I analyze my faults mercilessly, when I am upfront (at least in my own mind) about how I actually feel, I am no longer tormented by anxiety.  In other words, I do not fault myself for whatever my nature is.  I do not fault myself for not possessing the qualities of an obedient and brave soldier.  So what if I am a frightened animal hiding as far as possible from danger.

So what if I am hesitant to monkey with things I don't quite understand.

Some nights all I can hear in my head is Schopenhauer saying, "Life teaches us not to want it."

don't try
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 08:55:46 am by Nobody »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 11:26:47 pm »
The Thing in itself.We have all these people and objects all around us.Gorts get dazzled.They don't know what to make of it.
But I say behind the prettiest of faces hides the demonic "Thing-in-Itself".
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2016, 09:05:34 am »
Señor Nobody,
Thanks for your reply. I read Cioran some time ago in Spanish and I will read it again. He is an author worth reading many times. I remember you writing about the hikikomori in Japan. Here the psychologists mention that we have the NINI (Ni estudian ni trabajan). They neither study nor work. From time to time I listen to these so-called specialists complaining about their lack of ambitions and how they do not want to do anything useful with their lives. Here in Asuncion we have had an epidemics of car and motorcycle accidents. These specialists say that one of the reasons for so many accidents is that they go suicidal as if they dont care about life. I hear my father who is 79 and my uncles complaining that the youth have no discipline and they want to succeed fast and with no efforts. Be safe in New Jersey, Mr.Kraut. Raúl 

Holden

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Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow--
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand--
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep--while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?


https://youtu.be/cjVQ36NhbMk
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 10:48:30 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 04:16:13 am »
I had a similar problem with my phone,I bought an extra battery and an external charger, meaning I take out the battery from the device and put it in a charger.I use one while the other battery gets charged.It works for me.Cheap too.

Sorry about your brother in law.I hope he gets better.I think he is the one who once took care of your diaries when you could not.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 04:18:05 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Elder Warrior Gorticide

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 03:56:53 pm »
That's a good idea for the battery in the phone.   There is no external charger for the old Kindle DX Graphite.  I am going to perform the operation when I get the part and tools.

As for my brother in law, yes, the only thing he salvaged when I was out west was the 3 chests filled with notebooks.  I was very appreciative.

The only problem was when, in 2014, when I wanted to type up "Dead End" --- I was anxious to get those notebooks from where they were being stored.  I had been back in NJ since 2010 ...  I got drunk and demanded to get my notebooks back over the phone.  I said some violent things involving spade shovels and faces ... I felt terrible.  I got the notebooks back, but my brother in law hasn't really wanted anything to do with me ever since.   He also blames me for introducing my nephew to Schopenhauer and influencing him against wage-slavery ...  :-\

I still feel bad about losing my temper.  What can I do?  I was very drunk.  It was a bad day/month/year.

mud
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Aesthetic Comtempletion
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2016, 05:37:38 pm »
Quote
I still feel bad about losing my temper.  What can I do?  I was very drunk.  It was a bad day/month/year.

Its a bad life ,yeah? Not just for you, for all of us.Life itself is a failure.Far as I am concerned,you are nothing short of an angel,Herr Hentrich.

This is for you:

https://youtu.be/HRpqS9d2f74
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 05:42:32 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.