{∅, {∅}, {∅, {∅}}} : Rage Against the Meat Grinder

I had read the transcript of Henry Fool when you had first mentioned it as it was not available on youtube then.Now,it is .Just finished watching it:

At the moment I am completely incapacitated by severe depression. Unable to even frame articulate sentences.

Holden,

While I certainly would never make light of what you are describing, I have to say that it at least makes sense.  What I mean to say is that I appreciate your honesty.

I don't know what to make of those who insist that they are "happy".  Suppose a married couple insists that they are happy.  Many people would take issue with the claim that happiness is neither possible or even meaningful if it were possible.

Or an old childhood friend who writes that he is filled with hope and optimism (third marriage), and he actually thinks hope and optimism are good things.

I often suspect people just habitually lie.  Really.  And yet, the last thing I would want to do is insult anyone by suggesting that this is what is going on.  I simply say that i do not see how anything like happiness is possible given that we are these animals wired with consciousness.  I can't be the only one who is highly sensitive to exactly how it feels to be alive.   I suppose the only true reality is on the silent unspeakable level beyond reason, and so we can never expect to be able to communicate clearly with any other being.  Often people express the feeling that their pet dog understands them better - or has more sympathy for them when they are down in the dumps.   On a certain level, the animal also understands how unpleasant life is, and it sympathizes with the one who helps the animal with its natural born affliction of needing to eat food to live.

Ah, but what about puppies and how carefree they can be?  The same puppy whimpers in the dark for his mama, "Lord, why have you forsaken me?"


Optimism is wicked.

People who lie to others about how "happy" they may be acting kind of wicked as well.  They certainly don't mean to be wicked, but by insisting that they are a personal witness to this state of "happiness," they resemble those who think that all that is necessary to verify the existence of "God" is that they themselves are in personal communication with "Him" or "It".   I do not let it bother me.  I keep my real thoughts to myself since pointing out that things like happiness and gods are make-believe magical thinking would be offensive and cause serious friction.

The thing is, people can say or believe whatever they wish.  Communication with other human beings may be especially frustrating to one with a high degree of intellectual honesty and a kind of integrity which refuses to deny the ever present anxiety and generally unpleasant nature of being alive.

One must honor the delusions of others if one wishes to have any "conversations".  Also, maybe people are being kind in announcing that they have been feeling consistently happy or cheerful so that those who care about them do not worry about them.    I don't wish to totally alienate everyone.  Being totally honest is simply not polite.  At least you respect me enough to openly spill your guts about your inner reality.

Myself, I can say I have felt consistently irritable and agitated, but not to the extent that I lose my temper.  I have simply acclimated myself to living in my skin.  This creature that I am is easily annoyed.  I try to be as patient as possible WITH MYSELF and others.

I refuse to try to figure out why people insist on promoting happiness as a most desirable state.  Maybe this is one of the requirements for keeping a "romantic" relationship together: it requires a certain degree of agreeing to believe in fairy tales and "magic".  Wouldn't it make more sense to experience every little annoyance and anxiety and just develop the capacity to cope with it without losing one's temper?

Do you think it is true that happiness is an impossibility in this life?

Even if there were such a thing as "contentment", is such a state even meaningful?

I realize that happiness is just a word, just as God is just a word.  When I am sleeping (or trying to sleep) many things go around and around in my brain.  It is not that I wish sadness or heartache or agony on anyone.  It's just that I have a sense that what some people call happiness I would find extremely inauthentic if not an outright lie.

I am relieved that I am not married, that I am not under constant pressure to make things "happy" and "upbeat".

I am sorry you are feeling so awful, but I very much appreciate your honesty.  I realize also that your feelings are beyond irritability and are better described as severe depression.

So, if you don't mind, could you answer a few questions for me?  I ask these not as a "doctor" or "psychologist," but as a fellow existentialist philosopher.

Do you think that happiness is even possible in this life?   What do you make of those who insist they experience long periods (months) of happiness?   What about those who repress negative experiences and only remember things that make them feel good inside?   

Do you think that most "couples" practice a mild form of deception in order to be kind to their mate, to spare them any further burdens?

Why is it you think your relatives believe the lie?  - the lie that, if you would just settle down with a girl, how you would stop feeling so "suicidal"?

Often a failed romance can be the final nail in the coffin.

I do not think Schopenhauer is anywhere watching anything.   He did not condemn suicide at all, but he did not see this as a denial of the will.  In fact, paradoxically, the act of taking one's own life is actually a very WILLFUL act which says "I refuse this incarnation."

I see it as a very powerful act of defiance and have found myself deeply admiring certain such acts, for instance, when people were captured to be sold into chattel slavery, and certain strong-willed individuals were actually able to stop their own breath or kill themselves by eating dirt ...

Many have chosen death over a life in chains.

I've heard stories of Natives in North America during the worst parts of colonialism who would prefer being filled with bullets in their backs than be captured and put inside a cell losing their freedom of natural movement and self-determination.

It is a very personal and private decision, but  let the idea of it bring you some comfort and relief.  Was it Nietzsche who said that the thought of suicide got him through many nights of insomnia.

Cioran said that were it night for the idea of suicide he would have killed himself.

People can be cruel and vulgar, and family members can be outright stupid and insensitive.  I would suggest that you allow your depression to guide you.

Maybe you will have to undergo a series of inner transformations that might allow you not to care so much about what your family thinks will make you "less of a burden to yourself".  Maybe you will learn not to allow the politics in the office get under your skin.

Myself, I don't know what you are actually feeling, and I am presently feeling pretty damn stable.   I attempted suicide at age 19 because I no longer wanted to work 2 jobs (pizza place and hamburger joint) while commuting over an hour back and forth to a community college studying "accounting".   I rejected that life, ended up homeless back in my hometown, and then got into trouble.  Then I simply lived through it.

Some funny things happened along the way.

The next time I seriously wanted to jump off the roof of a large historic house was when I was about 29 ...  I had a job, had demanded a live-in girl friend leave me, was trying to get through community college (again, but this time enjoying it - computer science, calculus, physics), but was struggling with substances ... and it did hurt to breathe.   I mean, I was leading at least three different lives and it was all coming to a head.  I wanted it to just end.

A year later I would be arrested (again ... just like after my suicide attempt 10 years earlier).

There is a saying that it is better to get cigarettes in jail than flowers at the cemetery.

Depression and anger are related.  I think anger is healthier and less pathological.

A woman once told me that she suspected many of us "ought not to have been born".

If this is the case, we really just have to get through this.   

I think it would help humanity if you were to just write about your experiences for those who are as honest as yourself who might come after you and appreciate knowing they are not alone in feeling that way (at times).

It may pass.   You may become a more angry but less depressed man.   So be it.

Become angry that you have to endure such abuse at the workplace.   Just don't lose your head.



 

I know nothing about marriage but I get the impression that if I ever marry I will only make the woman suffer. Not fair.

  There is something to be said for being up front about a certain unwillingness to "make believe".   I refuse to believe in unicorns or dream of owning a horse farm or some other goal.  The thing to keep in mind is that it would not be fair to have to conceal one's true feelings and thoughts so as to protect the psyche of a partner.  How is it even possible to maintain integrity when the main goal is mutual harmony?

I am not fit for what is required.  I am too honest for marriage or employment.

Somehow Cioran lasted in a long-term relationship, so it may be possible that there are couples out there who can co-exist even when when has a dismal view of existence.

It's tricky though.  I suspect that the majority of people in all cultures place too much value on securing a mate, and that some may be better off alone.

People may assume that everyone who is not paired off desires to be, and that the root of their misery is a lack of affection in their day to day existence.  The main reason I am not at all drawn to "social media" and prefer this message board is because my views would invite a constant challenge to my worldview. 

I'm not sure if my age has something to do with it, but my condition is most often a state of agitation, irritability, and a desire to be alone.  I have not shed a tear since I stopped imbibing alcohol.   Hard liquor would set me into a rage, but a certain amount of beer or wine would have me sobbing.   I know I have mentioned here before that when asked by a psychiatrist why I continued to drink on a regular basis, I explained to her that I liked to cry.  For some sick reason, I actually felt that curling in the fetal position in the corner of a room with Kate Bush blaring to cover my sobs was somehow "cleansing".

Now, without the emotional lubricant of alcohol, I hardly feel anything but annoyed and agitated.  I do not make any value judgment either way.  This is just an honest observation.

Is it emotional stability or just the consequence of not caring so much anymore?   Or, is it all just chemical reactions?   If I were to walk down to the liquor store and then indulge in a Mr. Hyde ritual, would I blast music and dance around joyfully or sob in the corner in the fetal position or go into a rage?

I prefer not to find out.   I'll stick with the kind of misery I am used to ... a mild brooding resignation.



I don't know why your family thinks that pairing you off with a woman will cure all your existential angst, but their views are quite common.   The song, Candle in the Wind, was about Marilyn Monroe who said she would rather be alone by herself than alone with someone else.  Being in a "long term relationship" does not imply that those in such relationships are not alone, existentially speaking.

Have you ever read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury?  What struck me about that novel more than the outlawing of literature was the way his wife sat before the television screens on the walls.  How many countless individuals end up in relationships or even marriages as a means to escaping themselves?

We have to endure ourselves.

I know you enjoy watching films.  Have you ever seen Altered States?  There is a scene in that film where the main character divorces his wife because he would prefer to inflict the pain of existence on himself rather on another person.

In a way, he was taking Raul's attitude, knowing that his degree of consciousness most likely would have a disturbing effect on the poor woman who bonded with him.  Likewise, for me, I have no false delusions about this.  I would not want to be responsible for another person's psyche.

Similarly, I may be doing the workforce a favor by not infecting other employees with my depressive realism.  It's more complicated than words can describe.

I hope that your engagement with this message board has not increased the feelings of hopelessness for you.

Myself, i am currently thinking constantly about how to develop the ability to feel miserable without becoming suicidal.  Is there a way to resign oneself to feeling this way without inviting others to suggest remedies and cures?

In Huxley's Brave New World, "the Savage" had one demand:  the right to be unhappy.

Maybe you could just keep a record of how your brain operates, jotting down exactly how you feel about the events and moments you are conscious.  To a certain extent, we will always hold things back when writing for an audience, even for an audience of two or three.

Writing can be an alternative to suicide.    It might help if you observe your feelings as some kind of lab animal.  Observe this poor creature's response to existence.  Keep a record of "its" psychological and emotional experiences.

Maybe you might "lean into" your life-experiences and develop some remarkable coping mechanisms.  It is not so much other people and the world itself that you are forced to cope with, but your own internal reactions.  If your sensitivity heightens your despair, maybe you can learn some psychological methods to help make your more immune to what you perceive as mockery.

Recall the quotes by Samuel Beckett and Michel Houellebecq.

Yes, writing is a good activity although we do not write all what we think or feel. Sometimes language cannot grasp what it is in our heads and hearts. Of course we do not write everything. Every person is a world inside and that world has many secret doors and passages and in those passages there is much darkness.

You expressed this beautifully.  I once read somewhere that the source of tears is where the brain reaches a point where it cannot find words to express its feelings.

Maybe those who cry the most are those with an inner world too far beyond the limits of alphanumeric symbols and beyond reason itself.

I too very much sympathize with and understand why anyone would wish to partake in a bit of chemical lubrication or seek euphoria via alcohol and drugs.    Fortunately for me, I have limited resources, and most of that is going to help my mother remain living in her home (with myself as her faithful even if a little grumpy dog/man-son).  It is a very natural arrangement.

I strongly suspect that if my mother did not need me in her life, I most likely would succumb to my inclinations to seek oblivion.   

The main reason I have not held any information back, down to the tiniest detail, about what exactly it is I focus my attention on, as far as mathematics, philosophy, literature, and even computer programming goes, is because I think that I may have stumbled upon something which Holden de Northern India might find helpful in taking his mind off the drudgery of daily existence.

It is not that these activities fill me with joy.  Far from it.  It's just that there does seem to be a certain part of the mind that, when engaged, is temporarily liberated from the miserable pressure of the will and the politics of everyday life. 

Even Bertrand Russell, who was kind of a heavy duty mathematician and philosopher, was so pained by existence that, as a young man, he claimed he surely would have committed suicide were in not for his desire to understand more of mathematics.

I suppose it is hard to justify spending time studying something like programming or mathematics if it is not going to help one find gainful employment.  In these times, when more and more people find themselves unemployed or "underemployed," I suspect that activities like math and programming will become something individuals will engage in just for the mental stimulation, much like our fellow sufferers who enjoy playing music for its own sake, or even those who paint with no intention of ever being employed by some kind of advertising company.

Take care, Fellow-Sufferers.

Holden,
Is it not coming to this world a conspiracy? I believe it is.
Do you remember your nightmares? Maybe it is a good idea if you could write them down.

"The machine that is this society is grotesque and most absurd."
Indeed it is. And we are cogs in this machine. We oil the evil machine. The machine needs the living puppets because without puppets the orders of the Master would be howling in the wind.

Take care of yourself.

The Gort God must be defied.

To Herr Hentrich and Senor Raul,

1. Senor Raul,I have posted something about my nightmares in the "Why Sleep" section.

2. I don't know for sure if there is a lady waiting for  me for matrimony.If there is ,I am  afraid she is going to have to wait till the hell freezes over.

3. Herr Hentrich-your ideas and that of Herr Schopenhauer and Herr Kant are as important to me as oxygen. They make things clear to me which would otherwise have remained obscure .

4. As a child I was quite lonely,most of the times ,I played by myself. Most of the time I read comic books.Speaking of comic books.Here is one that might interest you.Its a comic book about Bertrand Russell, logic, math and madness.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/79/Logicomix_by_Apostolos_Doxiadis_et_al