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Holden

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Philosophical Pessimism
« on: April 12, 2016, 03:32:47 pm »
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Man is invalid or he is nothing.Outside the irremediable,everything is false,false this civilization that seeks to combat it,false the truths with which it arms itself.Ther.e is nothing in our pharmacies for existence.
Cioran
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Holden

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What is to be done?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 01:03:35 pm »
How does Cioran answer the question-What is to be done?

While he considers many potential routes to salvation, including music, suicide, silence, and skepticism, all of these
turn out to be provisional modes of salvation at best, and the notion of redemption continues to haunt Cioran. While he refuses what we could label “belief,” his writing is nonetheless informed by and infused with the remnants of a theological discourse, a fact that makes it difficult to get beyond the notion of salvation, and all the more so when we consider that to find something like a permanent solution to the problem of salvation would divorce us from our human nature, bringing us closer to animal or even plant-like existence. Given our condemnation to remain within the human, writing offers the closest thing Cioran can find to a solution: it is provisional and temporary, yet eternally renewable when we find ourselves in defiance of our lucidity. If we are unable, even in a post-theological age, to get beyond our attachment to the concept of salvation, writing lucidly about that failed attempt might just be the next best thing.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2016, 01:51:44 pm »
Didn't Cioran even write that writing itself is at once an alternative to suicide and its cure?

Even though I am sure Cioran and you have in mind a kind of writing Kafka was after, the kind that cuts to close to the bone about our human dilemma, I have have also been allowing myself to be more liberal with jotting down expository notes while going about solving [textbook] math problems.

Whereas I once wrote small and with very little explanation, one of the reasons I stocked up on some inexpensive composition notebooks is so as not to feel constrained, to allow myself to try to explain in words what I was doing with each step.

This can also be applied to writing lucidly about that failed attempt at reaching any kind of lasting salvation or grace.  It may help to minimize the misery of being painfully conscious of our lack of spiritual equilibrium when we are not afraid to write about our doubts and frustrations, noting that truthfulness is our primary objective.

In another sense, this reminds me of the value of noting failed experiments.  The object of an experiment is knowledge, so we learn just as much from "failed" experiments as "successful" experiments.

Reality is not what we wish it to be.  Reality simply is.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 03:44:47 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

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Holden

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2016, 04:55:30 pm »
Quote


Even though I am sure Cioran and you have in mind a kind of writing Kafka was after, the kind that cuts to close to the bone about our human dilemma, I have have also been allowing myself to be more liberal with jotting down expository notes while going about solving [textbook] math problems.

Could it be that the great torrents of mathematics which are gushing out of your mind with such force,the source of this Nile,is philosophical pessimism?Could it be that philosophical pessimism in your un/subconscious mind surfaces as mathematics?

Quote
I have loathed the planet’s noons and midnights, I have longed for a world without weather, without hours and the fear that swells them, I have hated the sighs of mortals under the weight of ages. Where is the moment without end and without desire, and that primal vacancy insensitive to the presentiments of disaster and of life? I have sought for the geography of Nothingness, of unknown seas and another sun - pure of the scandal of life-bearing rays - I have sought for the rocking of a skeptical ocean in which islands and axioms are drowned, the vast liquid narcotic, tepid and sweet and tired of knowledge...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 04:59:48 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2016, 07:17:58 pm »
I'm not sure about where the resurgence is coming from.  Calling this unknown realm "the unconscious" does nothing to shed light on its mysteries.  Nor does calling the thing in itself "the will" reveal the thing in itself.  We could even call the unconscious the will ...

Wherever it is coming from, I am really into it.  I am glad mathematics is back in my life.

I found an answer to my question about why I did not feel like eating when I woke up.  Before this mathemania revival, I used to wake up early to eat a big bowl of rice or potatoes with a few fried eggs mixed in it, but for the past several months, when I wake up and pick up on what I was looking into the night before, I do not want to eat for a few hours, even more than that some days.  I drink the coffee, and even hold off on the first cigarette for awhile ...

I read today that Food that requires too much energy to digest will draw blood from your brain and lessen your problem solving ability.

I guess I subconsciously have been aware of this.  Whatever the subconscious or unconscious is, it drives me.   What the ancients called demons or gods, moderns call neuroses or complexes.  This kind of obsession might be considered a mental illness to some, and yet those who are obsessed with such things will cherish it as their inner genius at work.

One man's Devil is another man's God.

One person's "mental illness" is another person's "genius".

Do I think my philosophical pessimism is surfacing as mathematics?

I'm not so sure about this.  All I know is that I have not exhausted my intellect yet.  I do not pay any attention to academic titles or professional status, not to "levels".  As you had mentioned long ago, it doesn't matter what "level" the mathematics is.  I will not berate myself for being drawn to the kind of math I am drawn to (as opposed to the math Knuth covers in The Art of Computer Programming).  Maybe it will change over time or I will suddenly lose interest again.

I really do intend to spend a good few years covering what might normally be covered in a couple years.  I do not intend to be finished.  I think that is what I had been very naive about when I graduated from the university.  I thought I was done, that I could put it behind me.  Evidently, I may be most my "self" when studying this stuff.  I return to it in a humble and honest manner because I suspect I may be a more serious student now.  Sure, I have been a serious student in the past, but now I don't have any delusions of "progress".  That's another thing I remember you pointing out, and I don't think this is such a bad thing.  Maybe one experiences mathematical understanding in flashes, but there is no reason to wish to retain all we have understood.

When push comes to shove, we still have to concentrate when performing arithmetic, especially when fractions are involved.  We still have to concentrate when using algebra ... And some mathematics I don' want to think about consciously ... but it still exists.

We have been exposed to the surface of an unfathomable ocean.   I am not going to drown in it.  My goals and objectives are humble.  As I age I want my mind to be occupied with mathematics and physics (and some programming).  The philosophical pessimism is cosmic, since in order to commit to this, I have had to have understood on a deep level that there is nothing to be had in this world:  no one to know, nowhere to go, and nothing to do.  This cosmic pessimism does not lead me to despair, but to indifference.  Now that I have internalized this cosmic pessimism, I am truly liberated to just enjoy what I have wanted to enjoy for so many years, but was always made to feel that it was a waste of time, that one should be earning more money or at least having "fun" doing something.

Now I finally get it, that so many need so much to escape from the wretchedness of their own dismally empty heads.  The way that this obsession is a manifestation of cosmic pessimism is that my indifference concerning everything else allows me to engage in mentally stimulating activities ... with books, notebooks, and pencils.

Nothing that is so, is so.  The satisfaction I get from developing patience, humility, and intellectual honesty - these are more valuable rewards than being able to purchase the Volkswagen or Volvo.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 10:17:54 pm by H »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2016, 03:02:32 pm »
Quote
Do I think my philosophical pessimism is surfacing as mathematics?

I think so,yes.Let's have a little thought experiment.Let's take away your philosophical pessimism.ALL of IT,shall we?
How do you feel now? You would probably want be "gainfully employed",hanker for the next promotion,date,maybe even raise a family,vote for the Democratic candidate...
What you certainly would NOT be doing is this:sitting on your room's floor alone studying mathematics which perhaps you would never make use of "professionally" & surely not corresponding with a deadbeat from a third world country.

You often mention the period from 2002 to 2015 when you were drinking & roaming  aimlessly.
They were not your lost years.I strongly believe that that's the period of your life that made you truly phenomenal.
That does not mean,you should drink and wander around,yes,you should focus on math.But certainly, at the bottom of it all lies philosophical pessimism.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 03:12:03 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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cosmic pessimism
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 09:48:26 am »
"I turned away from philosophy when it became impossible to discover in Kant any human weakness, any authentic accent of melancholy, in Kant and in all the philosophers." ~ Cioran

What sitting on the floor alone studying mathematics which I will never make use of "professionally" and corresponding with a deadbeat from a third world country turns out to be, for me, is seizing the day.  It is the most intelligent use of my time.  Nothing leads anywhere anyway, and if I am going to do nothing with my life, I might as well engage in this time consuming activity.  As for our correspondence, it is a little miracle that we have this ability to communicate.

There is so much bullshiit I would rather not think about.  At least mathematics gives me something I can focus on, making little breakthroughs as opposed to overthrowing systems.

Perhaps in gathering these new set of math diaries I am simply killing two birds with one stone.  On the one hand, most importantly, I am getting through the day (enduring time) avoiding altercations with others, and, on the other hand, I am also preparing for the possibility of living to be an old man with poor eyesight.  I will be able to go over my own notes, which will just contain harmless mathematics ... It's a rather humble undertaking even though it takes an eternity to get anywhere.  Fortunately for me, I have nothing better to do, which turns out to be my greatest blessing.

I want to type a paragraph from Eugene Thacker's COSMIC PESSIMISM, a tiny overpriced book that you will not find on Library Genesis. 


Song of Spite


There is an intolerance in pessimism that knows no bounds.  In pessimism spite begins by fixing on a particular object of spite - someone one hardly knows, or someone one knows too well; a spite for this person or a spite for all of humanity; a spectacular or banal spite; a spite for a noisy neighbor, a yapping dog, a battalion of strollers, the meandering idiot walking in front of you on their smart phone, large loud celebrations, traumatic injustices anywhere in the world regurgitated as media blitz, spite for the self-absorbed and overly performative people talking way too loud at the table next to you, technical difficulties and troubleshooting, the reduction of everything to branding, spite of the refusal to admit one's own errors, of self-help books, of people who know absolutely everything and make sure to tell you, of all people, all living beings, all things, the world, the spiteful planet, the inanity of existence.

Spite is the motor of pessimism because it is so egalitarian, so expansive, it runs amok, stumbly across intuitions that can only half-heartedly be called philosophical.  Spite lacks the confidence and the clarity of hatred, but it also lacks the almost cordial judgment of dislike.  For the pessimist, the smallest detail can be an indication of a metaphysical futility so vast and funereal that it eclipses pessimism itself - a spite that pessimism places beyond the horizon of intelligibility, like the experience of dusk, or, like the phrase, "it is raining jewels and daggers."



I think Eugene Thacker sounds a little like Cioran.

As large and seemingly boundless as the literary world seems to be, don't you find it a bit uncanny that there are only a handful of cosmic pessimists, and that, when one finds an obscure horror writer such as Thomas Ligotti, he confirms that there is Schopenhauer and Cioran and ... that's about it?

Maybe our intellectual tribe is so small only because there is a very real centuries long conspiracy against such truth telling that crosses the boundaries of countries and cultures.

There is the reality everyone knows within their skin, and then there is the farce of society where people sleepwalk through their activities as if under hypnosis, putting on their public masks, acting as though they had their shiit together, when we know what kind of jam they are in simply because we know what it means to have been born.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 11:08:23 am by Caspar Hauser »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016, 11:57:21 am »
Quote
"I turned away from philosophy when it became impossible to discover in Kant any human weakness, any authentic accent of melancholy, in Kant and in all the philosophers." ~ Cioran

He writes as if he never read Schopenhauer,as if Schopenhauer never existed.
Quote
The problem is that Schopenhauer’s system only works on paper and can’t be detected as being part of existence any more than a creator-God.
-Liggoti

I wanna smoke what Liggoti has been smoking.."only works on paper" what the hell is that!
I like Cioran & Liggoti,only perhaps to sound original they try to sideline Schopenhauer.
Hell,I don't wanna be original,what can BE original on this planet? I’m not ashamed to call myself a Hentrichian or a Schopehaurian thinker.I want THE TRUTH,not the originality.

For me,I have been obsessed with two things & two things only ever since I was a lad-“The Riddle of the World” & the “Riddle of Mathematics”.
I never thought I would find the answer to the second riddle also in Schopenhauer & in you.Other don’t say anything about it.

Well,its like this:there is a part of my mind which just cannot take things at face value.As a teenager my fellow students used to go out with their girlfriends & I used to ask myself:So,do they love each other? But who are they? What is love?Why do they love each other?

With regard to math,when they told me that pi=3.14,I wanted to know why?
Why just 3.14?? I mean, I know how to derive it but WHY exactly 3.14,why not 4.15 or 5.15?
They never told me why..until I happened to read a forgotten German philosopher who has been dead for 200 years.
So,this part of my brain,I’m talking about, it helped & hindered me.
Helped me in this way:I am finally aware about the illusionary nature of all that I see around me.
Hindered me in this way: Unlike my fellow students who just liked to cram the math formulae I tried to dig deeper & so was “left-behind”  by them.
Ha! the man to tried to really understand mathematics was told he has no aptitude for it!
Anyway,but I am thankful to this part of my brain as it finally brought me to you & I’d be thank ful to you till my dying day for writing back to me.. & then thanks to you I discovered Schopenhauer & his views on mathematics..
Sometimes I think he wrote not for Cioran & Liggoti but ..just for me..
Please understand me :I love mathematics ,I do,but I cannot see it as just a mechanical activity.
As Schopenhauer says, in order to derive satisfaction from mathematics one must be approach it intuitively ..& that approach works for me perfectly!!!
So,not only has Schopenhauer told me the true nature of existence but also that of mathematics! And I’m eternally indebted to you & Schopenhauer.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 12:08:00 pm by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 01:06:13 pm »
Quote from: Holden
I wanna smoke what Liggoti has been smoking.."only works on paper" what the hell is that!

I like Cioran & Liggoti,only perhaps to sound original they try to sideline Schopenhauer.
Hell,I don't wanna be original,what can BE original on this planet? I’m not ashamed to call myself a Hentrichian or a Schopehaurian thinker.I want THE TRUTH,not the originality.

My sentiments exactly.  I want the truth.  If Schopenhauer nailed it, then that is that.  I do not like to categorize myself, but to be honest, I have to call myself a Schopenhauer Disciple.  I wanted to name our message board that, The Schopenhauer Disciples, but I guess I prefer being a little more subtle.

Everything you blurted out resonates with me, and there is much going around in my brain right now.  I will leave my "work" on the floor to respond immediately before these things slip my mind.

How to order them?  Be patient with me if this all comes out disconnected.

1.  This interest you have in a higher, more intuitive approach to mathematics is commendable.  It reminds me of what the protagonist of Zamyatin's WE was grappling with ... the square root of negative one.   This was his revolutionary act.  He switched from the practical (engineering) state sanctioned applied mathematics, the mechanical computational mathematics, to something more resembling art.  It is probably no coincidence, and even ironic, that you are gaining insights about your personal quest for mathematical insight from Arthur Schopenhauer, who has been dubbed, "the artist's philosopher."

This discussion has not been exhausted.  I think we are starting to scratch the surface of something very deep.

2.  This story about the archer from a lower caste ... I am always for the underdog.  This is why I am such a fan of SymPy.  I am not jealous of those who can afford Mathematica.  I think it is absolutely HEROIC what these heads are up to.  They are not your typical comic strip heroes, but they are heroes to me.

3. On ignoring Schopenhauer (Cioran?) or diametrically opposing him to get on the map (Nietzsche) ... or pointing out a major flaw in his work so as to feel superior (Ligotti?) ... all I can say is, while I very much appreciate Ligotti and especially Cioran, I am with you as far as giving Schopenhauer the credit due.  As we are truth seekers, we are his intended audience.

Schopenhauer wrote very clearly, more like literature than systematic philosophy. I had tried to pass off Ligotti's A Conspiracy Against the Human Race to other inmates in the county lock-up, and there were complaints about the purposely difficult words he used.  I had to write a glossary for it.   See H-Diaries | Nonsense | 5.5 Jail full-p.180-200 or so ...  It was Jail Writings 2015 Level 5 (Part 6) ... If your copy has a folder "nonsense" it would be in n-5.5_Jail_2015_5-CAT.pdf around page 38 to 61 ... if you're curious.

In 2010, after a similar trip through the air-conditioned dungeon, I had sent in Cioran's The Trouble With Being Born, along with a dictionary, of course.  I thought it might be great fun, in such an environment, to have to decipher Cioran's aphorisms using a precious dictionary/thesaurus.

Myself, I would prefer Hoffman's inexpensive Calculus series and Axler's "Algebra and Trigonometry".  That would take me as close to Heaven as one can get while standing in Hell.

4.  There was something else.  Too late.  It must have slipped away already.  Wait, here it is:

Quote from: Holden
With regard to math,when they told me that pi=3.14,I wanted to know why?
Why just 3.14?? I mean, I know how to derive it but WHY exactly 3.14,why not 4.15 or 5.15?
They never told me why..until I happened to read a forgotten German philosopher who has been dead for 200 years.

So,this part of my brain,I’m talking about, it helped & hindered me.

Helped me in this way:I am finally aware about the illusionary nature of all that I see around me.
Hindered me in this way: Unlike my fellow students who just liked to cram the math formulae I tried to dig deeper & so was “left-behind”  by them.

Ha! the man to tried to really understand mathematics was told he has no aptitude for it!

I call this being a slow thinker.  So much of standard education relies on regurgitation.  Do you know the answer?  Can you memorize the capitals of cities and recite a list of old white men's names?  Do you know Pythagora's Theorem?   Can you fill out the forms you will need to fill out when applying for government assistance? 

You have to know that the square root of negative one times itself is negative one.  I was like, "a negative times a negative is a positive ... a negative times a negative is a positive ..."

I had to see a geometric interpretation with the imaginary axis and the real axis ... That is the only was I can get a better intuitive grasp.   Likewise, with pi, I know I have to have a feel for the numerical value that's about 22/7, but besides being a numerical value, it is first and foremost a ratio, roughly 22:7, but, more importantly when it comes to the structures of our intellect, the ratio of the circle's circumference to its diameter.   I have to feel that geometric identity ... but, when digitizing that concept into a magnitude, we cannot get around 22/7, which is roughly 3.14285714286.   Urrrrrrgh ...

5.  Do you think Schopenhauer can help us make mathematics more personal for us?   Keep me posted on your findings.  I am genuinely interested, as you can imagine.  I am going to check out Jason Wilkes's Burn Math Class.   The local library does not have a copy.  I am going to invest in the hard copy.   

Some commenter tried to discredit him, saying he was a "student" of evolutionary psychology, pointing out he was 27.   Do you see how people play these tricks?  Now, why would I feel I had nothing to learn from someone because of their youth?   Maybe Wilkes has been able to articulate things that have frustrated me about the unapproachable mystique of professional and academic mathematics.   He mastered in mathematical physics, something his detractor failed to recognize.

Anyway, maybe all this will start to gel together for us, and we can make some breakthroughs.

Outside the halls of academia, just as Schopenhauer would have it.  Truth for truth's sake.  Math for math's sake.  We can handle the truth.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 01:38:26 pm by Caspar Hauser »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

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Re: Philosophical Pessimism
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2016, 11:12:02 pm »
I did find an early version of Eugene Thacker's Cosmic Pessimism online.  Maybe I can take quotes from there directly rather than typing them up.  I am in the middle of typing something in another thread, so I will place these links here first.

Early version of Cosmic Pessimism  (it is incomplete)

Open Commentary to Eugene Thacker's "Cosmic Pessimism"

If you already downloaded it and don't want to look for it, here's a link for copying and pasting sections of interest:  cosmic pessimism

interview with Eugene Thacker
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 07:36:54 pm by Sticks and Stones »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~