Philosophers in Rags :: We dive deeper, and come up muddier.

I keep thinking about these students who commit suicide from the pressure they are experiencing with their "studies".

You know, even at my age without any kind of pressure at all, I still sometimes get a little depressed realizing how many years it will take me to get through the books I have chosen to explore.

I really feel for kids.   I had a nervous breakdown when I was 17.

I'm not going to allow myself to become overwhelmed.  Then again, I am an old rebel who has no intention of ever putting anything I study to any use. 

You see me as a future version of yourself.  Life is this cruel joke, but I think humility can save us.  That is why I always drive home the point that I do not consider myself an aspiring mathematician or physicist.   I just keep studying to prove to myself that college diplomas are a kind of lie.  We may get A's and B's in classes, and then forget everything we have learned in a few years.

We are free to go insane.

What's going on here?

This world gives me the creeps. 

The Birth of Pessimism in Zapffe’s On the Tragic – Silviya Serafimova

I am storing this on the hard drive.

I only wish I could slow my mind down and read more slowly.

Very little has been done in philosophy between Schopenhauer & you.

I just want to make it clear that I harbor no delusions about being in the same class as Schopenhauer as far as "thinking my way through this darkness" goes.

Please, Holden, you must realize by now that I neither have the talent nor the desire to "do" anything in "philosophy".   I have been content to simply be a disciple of Schopenhauer as regards my strong preference for solitude as well as my almost psychotic aversion to servitude.   I do not claim to have "chosen" not to reproduce,  but my repeated and continual readings of Schopenhauer's main works and essays during that period of my life when I might have been tormented by my inability to attract a woman of my desires helped me come to terms with "not being chosen by Nature".

When I did "play house" [cohabitate] with a woman, after a few years it became all too clear to me that I simply did not possess the temperament, nor would I wish to, to maintain long term relations and pay constant deference to the often petty and stupid desires of another human being.   

So, I am a disciple of Schopenhauer because he talked me through the most difficult problems I have faced in this life.   Reading him early on helped me look at life as a laboratory where I, the scientist, could observe myself, the subject, the creature, in action and confirm Schopenhauer's statements, especially statements about how a man of intellect will be received by a half a dozen blockheads.   Schopenhauer's views got under my skin and sustained me in situations where the behavior of others (the pack, the herd, the gang) might have caused me far more anguish had I not been a living disciple of that Great Thinker.

Every now and then I come across a statement made by you, where you imply that I am some kind of successor to Schopenhauer, perhaps as Schopenhauer felt he was to Kant.   But I assure you that I am in no such position in this historical narrative to play such a role.   

I have chosen to exert my limited energies into something I can handle, something I may peck away at and leave for a handful of those unfortunates who are born into this realm in the unforeseen future.

As Raul has suggested, I write for those who will have been made to feel like "losers" by their respective societies.   As Gary from Mendham, New Jersey has pointed out, the world consists of mostly "losers" - not just our materialistic human industrial mass societies, but in the animal kingdom as well, which is equally if not even more brutal, indifferent, and unforgiving.  While these math notes are written in cursive and in English, maybe they won't make it too far into the future, but if one person can benefit, even if that person is a future me, then it's worthwhile.

The reason I have switched gears and humbly submit to the tedious and thankless task of outlining a broad foundation and gateway into higher mathematics, aiming at non-traditional adult students, has to do with my life experiences.   I understand how one might have interests in such things but simply be devastated by the events life consists of, be it lack of a residence, getting caught up in the epidemics of madness, addiction to alcohol and other substances, living problems, incarceration, etc.

I just want me to go through these old classic textbooks in a rigorous manner and document the entire exploration in inexpensive composition books.  It is a task/project for a monk without a God.

I appreciate our dialogue and I have been flattered by your comments comparing my response to life with that of Diogenes the Cynic.   Still, I would not mind at all if you simply saw me as I seem to be, a man of slightly above average intelligence, nay, perhaps merely mediocre intelligence, whose temperament demands he think slowly and with as much intellectual honesty as possible.   I really suspect that a key factor explaining how I have come to elude structured employment is a lack of skill in deception, not just in deceiving others, but in deceiving myself.    Maybe it takes a great deal of self-deception to grease the wheels of the social machinery.

I wouldn't doubt if the qualities which make me so unfit for employment/servitude are the very same  qualities which make long term romantic relations unrealistic for me. 

I'm too honest.   Or, I just don't give a fuuck.

What was my point?   Oh, I do not want to delude myself into seeing myself as on par with Schopenhauer; hence, I refer to myself as his disciple.

As for my "life's work" ... just a trail of notebooks documenting my "tinkering with mathematics."   

This way of enduring time may be an example of what Zapffe called DISTRACTION.

I am almost certain that you had been quite aware of this method and may have tinkered with mathematics in a similar, albeit less intense, manner (before we even began our communications, as I am doing presently).  This is why, back in 2014, when I was suffering from my chronic addiction to alcoholic inebriation, you encouraged me to get back into a little math, although, as I was barley able to hold a pencil from what the booze was doing to my brain, I could not commit myself to it the way I have been doing for the past few years.

So, besides the notes left for some future non-traditional self-motivated student of mathematics, these notes I am leaving also serve to document one man's Technique of Distraction.   It is a great blessing that this Technique (obsessive study of mathematics) would protect me against falling into the endless traps set for lonely and despairing men, traps like bars, liquor stores, crack houses, meth labs, or even "online poker" or an unhealthy obsession with poorNoGrophy.. 

It's hard to fathom that many people use these wonderful contraptions (computers) just to play poker and black-jack!   (arrrrrr, that's a whole 'nother rant I'm not about to get into ... live and let live, live and let die!)

Peace (with a respectful bow)

Thank you, Holden.  Yes, I agree that Schopenhauer suffered, and there are those who would say that this colored his view of life; and yet, I lean more towards thinking that all life suffers a great deal of this agony.  Why the conspiracy to portray those who are honest about the real situation as somehow morbidly depressed or somehow neurologically diseased?

In the jailhouse, it is thought that those with the least "on the outside" suffer the least when incarcerated, and that those who have the most going for them outside the jailhouse suffer the most; and yet is it possible to generalize into such simplistic categories?

How can we begin to compare and contrast the degrees and kinds of suffering?  A catalog of suffering?

Can we compare the suffering experienced by those children you mention who beg for a fistful of flour to the suffering of Schopenhauer's Chinese Disciple, who, in his own words, confirms that, "It is a tragedy if an assembly worker has a mind like Schopenhauer, for that assembly worker; there are only endless torments left."


When I delight in finding solace in studying mathematics, please do not think that I am bragging or that I am not mindful of the torments experienced by countless others.  I am only following Schopenhauer's counsel to try to appreciate our health when we have it, in this case, my mental health.


I soaked a sack of dry chickpeas in water last night, and they are now cooking with chopped up garlic, onion, carrots, and celery.  The rain is coming down for days.  The mother worries about lack of financial security, and the only technique I have for warding off anxieties about the future is to hunker down with the books and continue … continue my self-absorbed quest to reteach myself things I think I already know, but will most likely never be satisfied with my level of understanding [of].  ?    ?     ?    ?     ?


That the courts were not swayed by Schopenhauer's arguments does not surprise me.  It's a real horror to be human knowing just how vulnerable we are standing beside anyone who might accuse us of wrong-doing before a judge.   It shows wisdom to have as little to do with others as possible.


I share your sentiments towards Schopenhauer's cold-blooded mother.

We each are born into this mess, and each of the countless beings has a life story it has no choice but to live.   Many years ago, while attending some "therapy groups" called "Rational Recovery" which were based on the Rational Emotive Therapy of Albert Ellis (I was struggling to escape from thought-destroying involvement with Alcoholics Anonymous which had been systematically forced down my throat), a few of the participants told me that they did not think it was "right" that I, with all my readings of Schopenhauer and my private dedication to mathematics, was a "janitor" for a park, basically what is called a "flunkie".


I asked them, "What would you have me do then?  It is a secure position with the State government with health benefits and a pension."


We each do what we must, and like that falling stone, we may believe that we are making choices along the way.   We know life is tragic, and yes, we can expect to be made to feel like freaks in the Freak Show.


It is not for me to suggest how anyone in particular is to go about coping with their particular living problems, for life itself is the universal problem, and each is in their own particular situation with specific hardships.


How fragile any sense of security must be!


Rather than weeping and lamenting, rather than pointing out how unfair it seems to be born into a body that must continually gather beans and raw vegetables to sustain its life force, I imagine the moon in the sky, all the horrors it has witnessed throughout the eons, and I focus on proving some trigonometric identities, knowing that, were I in a real cage, being handed some pencils, an actual notebook, and a classic, old, rare, difficult to track down math textbook, would be a treasure that would make my "spirit" fly high.



How can couples and entire families continue to celebrate the birth of a child?  It's as though they were all involved in a grand conspiracy to cover up the dark truths, and God have mercy on the poor slob who is not in the loop, for they will mock him for being too innocent or naive to play along with the farce!


Take care, Holden.   I do understand how Schopenhauer suffered.   That he was able to articulate this, that he was motivated to build his entire philosophy as a way to reflect the universal truths he suspected lurked in the ancient religious texts of "the East," this shows me just how alert he was.  Meanwhile his mother was writing popular novels equivalent to today's soap operas.  And she pretty much mocked and taunted her own son, driving him further into isolation and resentment of shallow and superficial "high society".



Why do so many perpetuate the farce, displaying photos of their automobiles, of them on vacations, of them happy and laughing?   They perpetuate this Big Lie, and it is an insult to our intelligence, really.  Who are they fooling but themselves?



Again, please understand why I make such a big deal about how the study of mathematics fills my days.  To me, it is a kind of miracle that I am inclined to spend my days this way.  I wonder how it is I have been able to reach this state of mind where I am content to own the official label of mentally ill as long as this affords me undisturbed leisure to live a contemplative existence where I am not abused by supervisers and coworkers who do not know any better than to mock or taunt those who "think too deep and too much."


We live in a world where people actually brag about working over 80 hours per week. 


It's a madhouse planet of the gorts.



As usual, I wish to clarify that I do not put the sole blame on industrialized capitalistic mass society, but agree with you that if one digs deep enough for the source of our misery, one will always find Nature, the "Great Mother of us all".



Do you think that maybe we have nurtured a certain kind of knowledge or awareness that will make us unfit for continued existence?  I mean, is the jig up for us?


Once we have seen what we have seen, once we have come to these conclusions, life still goes on.   It must be this way for countless others as well!  As Raul says, we are in this Prison Farm, yes, but it is a prison within a prison, where there are no chains more oppressive than the necessity for nurturing our bodies with food and taking shelter from the elements.


May our deaths find us in a state of peace and tranquility even as our corpse is being torn apart and gnawed by a pack of feral dogs.



UPDATE:  The chickpeas, carrots, garlic, onion, celery batch goes down the hatch very smoothly.  I am eating it for "break fast" at 10AM five hours after rising from slumber where I was in this dream where I was some kind of inmate in some kind of prison.  Thanks for the tip.


These are the minor details lacking from most the classic philosophers.   Some of them did not eat beans because they cause flatulence.   Who cares about farts?  Not me, as long as they're MY farts, that is ...   

Being “so unfit for employment/servitude”  makes you a different man and see this sad world in a different  light.

I am confident that you appreciate the meaning of this as I notice the important "/" connecting employment and servitude.  You once said that as a child you used to daydream of one day wearing a soldiers uniform, and then as you aged, maybe you soon became repulsed considering just how much brainwashing, breaking-the-spirit, and programming must take place to transform a man into an "efficient and obedient soldier".

It's a very tricky business, our natural languages.  There are subtle inflections and facial expressions which help a great deal when communicating the real meaning of our words.

Thankfully, you really get it.  I mean, you understand the meaning of my words even without my facial expressions.  I sense this because, in another thread, you held up "being a bad slave" as virtuous.  The same might be said about bad soldiers or bad employees, depending on the circumstances.

When a man becomes "unemployable" due to what the medical/psychiatric professionals refer to as "behavioral disorders," there is often moral stigma, and the stubborn little runt who just can't seem to kiss anybody's aSS or lick their boots enough to be put on the payroll, well, this kind of individual is often loudly condemned and many people will wish to see the "lazy layabout" starve to death or worse.

I genuinely feel that you might even respect the qualities I have developed which make employment so very problematic.   I appreciate this Raul.  There are many, even in the extended family of relatives whom I never see, who most likely view me as some kind of "con-artist", someone who is living off the Tax Payers, someone who will not deserve anyone's pity when he finds himself out in the cold with water destroying all his useless "work".

Thank you for encouraging me to nap.

Yes, I am sure I see this world much differently than those who have raised children.   I think the fact that I have not brought children into this world has also liberated me from much of the pressure which motivates others to chase the carrot.   Not having a wife or even a significant other also liberates me in that I am under no pressure to "better my financial prospects".

It is as though I value this kind of freedom far more than I would value any sexual relations.

This way of life is not suitable for most.  In fact, I bet there are many who judge me who would not last one year living in my skin before they drowned themselves in the ocean or threw themselves ffrom a building.

I understand that when we die we will be nothing, and that, in a real sense, we are already nothing.

Schopenhauer expresses this better than I can.

One of the reasons I value the dialog here is that I had grown tired of keeping a "blog".

Should this message board fade away were we to become bored with it, I would most likely not bother to post at the blog very often at all.   It's just asking to be attacked.   Someone posted a comment there that I am an overeducated bum.  So be it. It is what it is.   Who knows the dynamics playing out in society which have placed me in such a position?  Maybe there are more like me than I know.  I mean, maybe there has been a systematic effort to weed those with my kind of attitude out of the workforce where I can't infect others with my "philosophy".   I suppose certain sentiments we express here could rub certain authority-worshipping types the wrong way, enough to make them want to run us down with their pickup trucks or SUVs.  There are those who might like to see me beat to a pulp.

So, as you say, we are not bothering anyone with our words.  This is for all intents and purposes a private message board.  We're not broadcasting it and are not trying to be popular.  We're like one little cell in the Anti-Fakebook Resistance.  We're a kind of antisocial network.   

So, we feel free to express "forbidden thoughts".

One of the forbidden thoughts you have unleashed is the idea that there is something honorable in not being cut out to be a good slave or a good soldier.

I might be a model prisoner, but that is only because I prefer to hide in a cell than engage in any contact sports.  I'm only 135 pounds.  I've been that weight since high-school.  It's just who I am.  i don't bother to lift weights.  I don't do push-ups.  I have many teeth pulled out and I just let my beard grow and my hair fall out.  I shave my head balled since there is little gorwing on top anyway.

I feel i am liberated from vainity, and I value my Mental Independence.

The 87 year old you met is calm and serene.  That's good to hear.

May he remain safe and sound.   

Holden says we are like the prisoners who send messages to each other by knocking on the wall of the adjacent cell.

I like that we are not deluded into thinking we might change the world or even influence many people.  We're just sending messages to a couple cells across the oceans.


This may help each of us appreciate our existential lonelienss.  Really.  Our dialogues might fulfill some kind of primitive need to communicate with like-minded individuals.


Thanks for being there and for continuing to knock on the wall of my cell.


Holden,

UPDATE on the chickpeas:  After cooking the entire batch, I store in container.  The Mother won't eat them since she has something she calls "IBS"  - Irritable Bowels Syndrome.  I think it's BS, for sure.

Anyway, the concoction inspired me to bake my own crackers.  I don't know what Indian bread is, but if I can make my own crackers, surely I can track down instructions on how to make the Indian bread.   Just an idea.   You see, I wish people like Schopenhauer or even Cioran would have left some more specific details about their diets.  I find such things interesting to say the least.

How one goes about feeding their beastly/creaturely animal-body surely falls in the domain of "how to get through a life not worth living".

The crackers came out great.  I added salt, basil, RoseMary, and some garlic salt.   The recipe I used consists of flour, extra-virgin olive oil, and water..

What I discovered while burning the first batch is that it is only a matter of seconds between being "perfect" and becoming burnt to a crisp.   I flattened them very thin, so I had to watch them like a hawk.  Before putting them in the oven, I had to poke little holes in them with a fork - unless I actually wanted them to get puffy air pockets in them.

The chickpeas are kind of bland, but the spices on the crackers helped the chickpeas go down the hatch more delightfully.  It's a shame the Mother doesn't go for the chickpeas, but she sure loved those crackers!

My parents have been divorced since 1981.  Now they are both aging rapidly.  Do you know what I like to do?   I like to bake chocolate chip cookies and then watch them kind of fight over them.   Well, the Mother says, "Hide the cookies from your father!" before he shows up.   He is a cookie monster.   I like to give him a few to take, but he eats them right away.

Of course, I don't try to compete with the Sister who has had years of practice.  I had never baked any kind of cookie until I turned 50.

I'm not half bad, I have to say.

Thank you, Raul.  Like you, I often lean strongly in the direction of depression, but the reasons are not due to being condemned by the Tax Payers or those in the work-force who may resent those of us who are not enthusiastically seeking to fill the positions in the kinds of jobs available.

The reason I refer to our world as Science Fiction Bizarroland has to do with some of the things you mention.  I am sure you have witnessed how human animals operate their vehicles in the cities and elsewhere.  What a nasty species.  It is truly a nightmare world.

Most math textbooks do not mention this nightmare world, but stick to the abstract mathematical concepts.  While I do appreciate when I am able to focus on developing my understanding, it is as though I have to ignore a large percentage of my brain while doing so.  i must ignore the inner cries of anguish which feels like a swarm of heart-broken demons.

It is a difficult life for everyone, and no one gets out alive.  I suppose math books, notebooks, pencils, calculators, etc, are like security blankets in which I find some comfort.  They are the props which prevent me from being overcome with anxiety.

No matter what we do to maintain our own sanity, there is no guarantee that we will not cross paths with one who is clearly unable to maintain any sanity whatsoever.  In fact, the norms of our global consumerist society are pretty much INSANE, and behind the scenes, as you know is warfare and prisons, rich bankers, wealthy generals, and dangerous cities ... not to mention the basic dangers in the natural world such as too much water or not enough water, flesh eating bacteria, etc, a hostile environment all around - and then there is our own body and its vulnerability to disease, decay, injury.

Yes, I say I love studying math, and this is true; but, believe me when I tell you, there is always the background hum of primitive fear and anxiety which we inherited from the fish of the deep sea.

You are not alone in your despair and your disgust with the predicament we have been born into.  I, for one, will be honest enough with you not to deny just how bad it really is.

This case of suicide reveals a great contradiction.

One might be tempted to think simplistically that suicide is the consequence of a Denial of the Will to Live; and yet, this is a case where the individual [Will] is not satisfied to the point of extreme anguish.  In other words, an over-abundance of frustrated Willing [unfulfilled Desires] led to the extreme decision to terminate the life-processes.

On the other hand, where the individual is able to temper his/her desires, to face the catalog of disappointments, and, hence, deny the will, the less likely one would perform self-murder.

I do not wish to minimize the sense of tragedy, but, not to sound cold-hearted, this case may be more pathetic than tragic.   I do have compassion for what this young man must have been suffering, but it arouses a kind of pity I might feel for one who is ensnared in a cruel addictive craving for yet another little hit off a crack pipe, and another, and another.  In other words, while I do not judge him, mixed with the pity is a sense of relief not to be in his skin possessing his warped values.   It is possible to have mixed feelings about such a suicide. 

I would never presume to judge the man, but I can't help but analyze the dynamics of such a case.

Siddhartha said that "Suffering has a cause, and that desire is the cause of suffering."

Therefore, in a purely arithmetic sense, the more one desires, the more one will suffer.

Has the sight of an attractive woman ever caused you pain?

Holden, you once said that sexual desire (that is, sexual attraction) is more pain than pleasure.  Most associate sexual desire with pleasure, but you correctly associate such desire with anguish.

Well, for us, as well as for many others, this kind of romantic desire is the cause of suffering, and so we learn "not to want it."  We avoid making eye contact.  We do not want to experience the pain of desire.

And yet, still more suffer from the constant bombardment of artificial desires injected by advertisements which are based on wealth-warped middle class values.

The degree of suffering is cranked up several notches where so many suffer for want of a smart phone, for want of an X-Box, for want of a Volkswagen Passat, for want of a fine house or "manner".

I suppose it is wise to curb our desires and to have more intelligent dreams, dreams not based on the artificial desires manufactured by consumerist culture.

Again, I mean no disrespect to the young man who hung himself.  As you say, if I were born this man, I would have his nature; but does Nature entirely determine one's nature? 

If my engagement with mathematics were dependent upon some kind of career objective, then such engagement would be at the root of great despair, as in, "This is all in vain!"  - but, since, as you have pointed out to me a few times, my engagement with study is detached from any conception of securing some kind of salaried position in society, my level of suffering is limited to that caused by minimal desires to better understand.

I will confess that I did experience a shock of disappointment when, about 15 years ago, I realized that no amount of mathematics or even degrees from a university would place me in the drivers seat of even a ten year old VW Jetta.   I had to let go of my desire to own a car.

In our consumerist automobile-centric society, one is made to feel less than an adult if they do not own a motor vehicle. 

It takes stubbornness to resist the manufactured desires of our age.

His family can blame television and advertising for his death ... and AMBITION.

CHICKPEAS UPDATE:  I experimented, saving the skins from the fresh salmon, and added the fish skins to my chickpea slop concoction, heating it on very low for an hour or so.  Man, that adds something to it, for sure.   Just the skins.  I will never ever discard fish skin ever again but will always save for the chickpea slop. 

Do you see how a creature whose Will is immensely satisfied with chickpeas cooked with fish skins would be less likely to commit self-murder than a creature who spit on such things while all torn up about "never being able to own the car of his dreams" or quite upset over his prospects of becoming the Lord of a Luxurious Estate being so poor?

There is more to this Denial of the Will than meets the eye.  While Schopenhauer never condemns the act of suicide, since, if there is one thing a man or woman has every right to do, it's to take their own life (or drink alcohol or do illicit drugs),  he does go into some detail about why suicide cannot be considered a denial of the will, but is more likely the result of a very strong will which rejects the particular circumstances the principium individuationis manifests as its body.