Author Topic: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking  (Read 1991 times)

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raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 01:17:49 pm »
Mr.Holden,
"Like Jesus. When he was being dragged for his crucifixion, I have read that people spat at him, pelted him with stones. He did not resist. He took it all. Within a few hours he had pacified the Will-to-Life.  The Bible does not say if he was weeping when he was being crucified. But I’d say he was." I think that Jesus does not deserve your kind comments. Didn´t Jesus say that he was executing his Father´s Wishes? His Father, from the little I know, was a jealous, mean,genocidal "father". Didn´t Jesus´Father commit attrocities and acts of imperialism? Do you think that the so called death of Jesus helped humanity? He brought more burden to humans. No, do not pity him. I say the man from Bethlehem was a double agent. Pretending to save people but giving people more chains. And after all, he himself predicted his death in the cross so how could the Son of God die if he was divine? Most people or gorts as Hentrich calls them kill themselves for money issues, for not being able to provide for the family, for losing their jobs or even losing their girlfriends,or even for having no money, etc. In the future many will be condemned for no having money. Killing oneself for philosophical reasons? Just for writing these words you could end up in jail. I admire your dedication to philosophy and Schopenhauer in particular. Your commitment is to be lauded. But here in this slaughterhouse aka Earth you are meant to be "productive" and "competitive" and last but not least "positive". Rockefeller already said it: " I want workers, not thinkers". Be safe. Raúl

Nation of One

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 12:05:28 pm »
Raul,

I had seen the film, THEY LIVE, a long time ago.  I can't watch news on TV without thinking about that film.   So much psychological propaganda ...

The following documentary is about subconscious propaganda.   

At around 9:40 way in, it gets interesting.  It's all about distraction and repetition.

At around 13:00 - about how cop TV shows are related to Hegelian principles of bringing about change that may restrict individual rights ...  The public will shortly be unable to think or reason for themselves. 

"You were made to believe."

Most people want to be the same as everyone else when it comes to opinions.  They judge their own personal sanity by bouncing ideas off their neighbors and friends.   When I would discuss such things with "the street people" in my home town, over a bottle of booze, of course, they would insist, "Mike, you are definitely NOT crazy.  There's nothing wrong with your brain.  You are one of the few who is actually thinking!"

Men become glued to the "sports shows".  Even in jails, the men are glued to the sports shows.   ::)

HG Wells had said a long time ago that arenas could be constructed across the world for the purpose of sports as entertainment, where man would become disengaged from his own destiny. 

"Politics is show business for ugly people."

After about 23 minutes: "In order to rule, you have to get the consent of the ruled, fostered by ..." He lists psychiatric medications .. OBEY ... "to make him actually love his slavery."

The average attention span is about 4 minutes.

I have, once again, lost the will to write.  Everything seems so pointless.  Take care.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 01:04:43 pm by 2deep »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 12:30:20 pm »
2deep,
Yes, I saw that film also a long time ago but I did not realize enough to see the implications. We are constantly brainwashed, indoctrinated (educated), deceived, manipulated, zombified. Yes,you are right. So much psychological propaganda. We are just sheep to be herded in charge of a shepherd or a watchdog. Yes, again everything seems so pontless. Be safe. Raúl

Holden

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Quote
His Father, from the little I know, was a jealous, mean,genocidal "father". Didn´t Jesus´Father commit attrocities and acts of imperialism? Do you think that the so called death of Jesus helped humanity? He brought more burden to humans. No, do not pity him. I say the man from Bethlehem was a double agent. Pretending to save people but giving people more chains. And after all, he himself predicted his death in the cross so how could the Son of God die if he was divine?

Senor Raul,
Ofcourse you are right.But we are not talking about the same Jesus.I should clarify.Or maybe I’d let the Master clarify himself-
 

There is nothing more certain than the general truth that it is the grievous sin of the world which has produced the grievous suffering of the world. I am not referring here to the physical connection between these two things lying in the realm of experience; my meaning is metaphysical. Accordingly, the sole thing that reconciles me to the Old Testament is the story of the Fall. In my eyes, it is the only metaphysical truth in that book, even though it appears in the form of an allegory. There seems to me no better explanation of our existence than that it is the result of some false step, some sin of which we are paying the penalty. I cannot refrain from recommending the thoughtful reader a popular, but at the same time, profound treatise on this subject by Claudius5 which exhibits the essentially pessimistic spirit of Christianity. It is entitled: Cursed is the ground for thy sake.

Allied with this is the contrast between the Greek and the Christian idea of death. It is strikingly presented in a visible form on a fine antique sarcophagus in the gallery of Florence, which exhibits, in relief, the whole series of ceremonies attending a wedding in ancient times, from the formal offer to the evening when Hymen’s torch lights the happy couple home. Compare with that the Christian coffin, d****d in mournful black and surmounted with a crucifix! How much significance there is in these two ways of finding comfort in death. They are opposed to each other, but each is right. The one points to the affirmation of the will to live, which remains sure of life for all time, however rapidly its forms may change. The other, in the symbol of suffering and death, points to the denial of the will to live, to redemption from this world, the domain of death and devil. And in the question between the affirmation and the denial of the will to live, Christianity is in the last resort right.
The contrast which the New Testament presents when compared with the Old, according to the ecclesiastical view of the matter, is just that existing between my ethical system and the moral philosophy of Europe. The Old Testament represents man as under the dominion of Law, in which, however, there is no redemption. The New Testament declares Law to have failed, frees man from its dominion, and in its stead preaches the kingdom of grace, to be won by faith, love of neighbor and entire sacrifice of self. This is the path of redemption from the evil of the world. The spirit of the New Testament is undoubtedly asceticism, however your protestants and rationalists may twist it to suit their purpose. Asceticism is the denial of the will to live; and the transition from the Old Testament to the New, from the dominion of Law to that of Faith, from justification by works to redemption through the Mediator, from the domain of sin and death to eternal life in Christ, means, when taken in its real sense, the transition from the merely moral virtues to the denial of the will to live. My philosophy shows the metaphysical foundation of justice and the love of mankind, and points to the goal to which these virtues necessarily lead, if they are practised in perfection. At the same time it is candid in confessing that a man must turn his back upon the world, and that the denial of the will to live is the way of redemption. It is therefore really at one with the spirit of the New Testament, whilst all other systems are couched in the spirit of the Old; that is to say, theoretically as well as practically, their result is Judaism — mere despotic theism. In this sense, then, my doctrine might be called the only true Christian philosophy — however paradoxical a statement this may seem to people who take superficial views instead of penetrating to the heart of the matter.

And Vanini — whom his contemporaries burned, finding that an easier task than to confute him — puts the same thing in a very forcible way. Man, he says, is so full of every kind of misery that, were it not repugnant to the Christian religion, I should venture to affirm that if evil spirits exist at all, they have posed into human form and are now atoning for their crimes.10And true Christianity — using the word in its right sense — also regards our existence as the consequence of sin and error.


As for the Jesus of the Mega-churches and the televangelists...


La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2017, 04:44:25 pm »
Mr.Holden,
It is a big problem for me to deal with these deep subjects because I have no theological or philosophical background.Ignorant, I admit. You see,Holden, I find many things strange about Jesus. His so called birth by a virgin maid, his father,Joseph,the carpenter. His strange birth in a cave. There are eighteen years that there is nothing known about him. His attitude towards the temple. Remember he expelled the money changers from the temple. The temple, the Jewish temple, was the banking system at that time. Money, power and religion all together linked even nowadays. Israel, the chosen people, chosen as pets by the Master in the Sky. Then you have his representatives surrounded by wealth and riches in Rome.Did the man from Bethlehem not foresee this? He said he came to bring light but we have been living in darkness all these two thousand years. Besides he only made us more dependent on a unknown and untouchable divine entity. Is the Mass not a cannibal ritual where his body is "eaten" by the believers in order to remember him? His Father made us sinners; so what´s the point in salvation? Father, thou art in Heaven, hallowed by thy name, says the prayer. Who is this Father that needs so much worship and veneration from the wretched humans? Take care of yourself. Raúl 

Holden

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2017, 10:55:52 am »
Senor  Raul,
Thanks for  the response. I see that you have a very sharp mind. I can praise Jesus,I have  that luxury  as I am in a country where  only  about  2%  people are christians. However, if I was in Paraguay or the US perhaps I would be   equally hostile  to the Jesus freaks.

For all we know maybe  Jesus never existed in the  first  place.But  my point is slightly different. You see ,here, if you were to visit  this country & if you would go to a temple-the experience is pretty  humdrum.You take off your footware,enter the temple ,ring the  temple bell, pray to the idol  & that’s pretty much it,not to mention the fact that most temples are packed to the point of bursting.

The point  which I am trying to make is that philosophy of any religion gets ripped to pieces once you put it to practice among the masses. Qualitas Occulta.
That said, I can see clearly why Schopenhauer admired the Upanishads so much.

While I cannot say what all the historical Jesus did or did not do,and its to a large extent beside the point,what I want to underscore is this:Adam committed the original sin by copulating with Eve, he said yes to life. Jesus  willingly accepted crucifixion & thus embraced the denial of the will-to-live.

That does not mean I believe that there really was a man called Adam or Jesus.That just means that this story is a good vehicle to take a rather subtle metaphysical truth to the masses. But not good enough to make them understand what it really means.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Nation of One

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 11:35:38 pm »
Very good points about the allegorical meanings of the stories.

I can appreciate both perspectives.  I harbor great hostility toward "the Soul Police". 

I do not think it matters if such a person existed.  Daniel Quinn had an interesting take on the story of the Fall in his Ishmael, and a totally different interpretation of Antichrist in The Story of B.

I also remember Hermann Hesse playing around with different interpretations of biblical stories in Demian, where the story of Cain and Able meant something totally different than the way it is taught in Sunday Schools.   Rather than Cain being actually evil, the idea of he and his decendants being evil is just a lie propagated by Abel's decendants because they don't like the Cainites.

There came a time when I began to resent having these stories forced upon us ... and yet, when I began experimenting with psychadelic drugs, I idenitified with the persecuted prophets of biblical times.

I have issues with religion, and my own mother refers to me as an atheist.  Like Schopenhauer, I do not like to argue about it, and I just take it as a given that there is no such being as Jehova = Allah = YHWH = Alien Space God, nor do I take seriously the philosopher's "Absolute".

Some might say Schopenhauer's "Will" is a kind of pantheistic god which becomes the world (as representation), but that is really stretching it.

I have been enjoying the parts of the Berlin Manuscripts where Schopenhauer discusses such things as religion.  He really did find this "God concept" annoying.   And yet, as Holden points out, he did seem quite drawn to the idea of asceticism which would be the ideal way for so-called "Christians" to go about living in this world.

Nowadays I prefer not to discuss religion, but I do see where Holden is comong from.

In Schopenhauer's view, the strories presented by religion are simply vehicles for transmitting ideas, such as ideas about what to expect from this world:  crucifixion.

You know, some people are so turned off by all the confusion caused by religion-as-politics that they go off the deep end trying to worship evil ... which they see as having more power in this world.   

Life is sad, really.  It is good to have a forum in which to discuss such things in a relaxed and carefree manner.  In some environments it is dangerous to not hide one's disbelief.
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2017, 09:35:25 am »
Señor Hentrich,
Although I have no religious beliefs, the only way I can conceive of a god, is that of a cosmic deity that has nothing to do with what is taught in the churches, synagogues or even the mosques. Nothing to do with bad or good, beyond our comprehension. I also think one must be open minded although this is difficult. We have been brainwashed or conditioned for so long that is impossible to stop our programming that started in the cradle.Life is complex and so are human beings. The origin of humanity is shrouded in deep mystery. Years ago I saw a documentary about the exctionction of the dinosaurs 60 million years ago. The scientists said that a meteorite caused the extinction. The scientists also said that because of that event our ancestors were able to start on Earth. Clearly one thing is linked to another. An extinction made our ancestors possible. Then you have the Great Flood, another extinction of humans this time. Next time, who knows, another exctionction might wipe us out for good. This time there are plenty of weapons to carry that out. Nuclear bombs,chemical and bacteriological agents, genetic weapons, enviromental disasters,etc,etc. I read that a meteorite might come near the Earth.Who knows? Be safe. Raúl   

raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2017, 01:59:42 pm »
Mr.Holden,
I am not only resentful to the Jesus freaks, but also the religious hierarchy in general. As I said, I am not a knowledgeable person like you or Hentrich, thinkers of a tremendous caliber. Religions,here in the west, tell us that we are under the guidance of gods or entities that are trying to set the path straight for humans. I understand that we, if the gods or entities are in other planes, we are limited. We are limited because they want us that way. Our makers, so to speak, gave us low IQ, low life expectancy. Well maybe the exceptions were in Biblical times Methuselah who lived 969 years. And this guy still lives because there is a Methuselah Foundation for those with money to achieve immortality. So in short humans are to depend on the gods for good. And I remember Adam, the poor guy copulated with Eve because this lady was tempted by the Serpent. Wretched Serpent. Jesus embraced death, you say,the denial of the will to live. He preached about the dwelling of the Father, his cruxifixion was a farce. He surely must have seen this coming. Once again religion is a tool to keep us enslaved and to happily carry the burden of oppression, oppression of the princes, popes, kings, emperors,generals and presidents,etc. If I were to convert I would like to be an Innuit, Eskmos from northern Canada. They say there are no gods, only spiritual beings in the cosmos. Be safe. Raúl 

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2017, 10:30:55 am »
While I was doing a search through Dead End, I found this entry and immediately thought that Raul of Paraguay might get a chuckle from it.


2014.01.08

While looking for a copy of Ken Kesey’s One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest and discovering that, not only was it out, but also on hold by yet another patron, I came across his second novel, which I had never heard of before (shockingly): Sometimes A Great Notion. It’s over 700 pages!

In the introduction, Charles Bowden recalls a monster statement made by Kesey (advice to writers). Basically, he says you’re going to see God one day, and your job as a writer is to say,

    “Fu-ck you, God, fu-ck you and the Old Testament you rode in on, fu-ck you.”

    “The job of the writer is to kiss no ass, no matter how big and holy and white and tempting and powerful. The job is to always be exposing God as the crook, as the sleaze ball.”


2014.01.19

Humility destroys humiliation. Sometimes the only way to win is to learn to be the loser.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 11:23:50 am by The Aging Student »
Things They Will Never Tell YouArthur Schopenhauer has been the most radical and defiant of all troublemakers.

Gorticide @ Nothing that is so, is so DOT edu

~ Tabak und Kaffee Süchtigen ~

Holden

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2017, 01:21:50 pm »
As for remedies, he neither possesses nor proposes them. Since he knows you cannot treat destiny, he does not set himself up as a healer in any case. His sole ambition: to keep abreast of the Incurable.
-Cioran.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: An Invitation to Bash Positive Thinking
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2017, 02:58:27 pm »
Herr Hentrich,
Yes,**** you,God, yes,that´s the curse this so called divine entity deserves.The Devil deserves a good thrashing."Kiss no ass", you write. Well, that´s what I am doing. Kissing the authorities´asses all the time. Ever saw the "The Passion" by Mel Gibson? I remember the Roman soldiers using the Roman whip with Jesus which had cords of leather and a hook atttached to them. I would have never liked to be whipped at that time. But sometimes I wish I could use that to whip the **** of the many people. 
I read Holden´s link about the factory slaves. "What a wonderful world," he put. That reminded me of some headlines these days in Paraguay´s newspaper ABC COLOR (Un diario joven con fe en la patria). Some of them are:
"Woman strangled to death and her body tossed into the bush" Wednesday, February 1st.
"Fifteen year old raped, tortured and made to drink caustic soda by a couple" (and now she is in induced coma in hospital).Wednesday, February 1st.
"Mother denounces her five year-old son **** in Capiatá" Wednesday, February 1st.
"Teenager victim of sexual abuse by her uncle gave birth to a baby daughter", Wednesday, February 3rd.
"Stepfather may have abused his three-yeard old stepdaughter",Saturday, February 4th.
 "21 year-old motorcyclist run over and killed by an unknown individual driving a Mercedes Benz" (The Mercedes Benz guy escaped from the scene) Tuesday, 31st.
Yes, what a wonderful world! Tragedies every second.But winners say this slaughterhouse is the best of the worlds.
Take care. Raúl