Author Topic: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism  (Read 8875 times)

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Holden

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Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« on: February 15, 2018, 12:06:48 am »
Senor Raul,
You remember how we discussed Schopenhauer’s chief work once? Would you like to discuss the connection between Schopenhauer ,Hinduism and Buddhism?

The Nyaya school offers what has been termed as "No Joy(NJ) understanding of liberation,according to which the liberated self does not enjoy ant positive bliss(or possess any cognitive or affective faculties) over and above the absence of pain.It holds that consciousness is not an essential but an adventitious attribute of self.It is only when the self comes into contact ,through the mind and the sense organs,with the external objects that is conscious.Consquently,in the state of liberation,when the self is freed from its body(through which it undergoes distress through contact with sense-objects), it is at once emptied of consciousness and freed from all experiences whatsoever-pleasurable or painful.(-Ankur Barua).

Just as it is not meaningful to ask for the direction in which a quenched fire has disappeared,there are no ways of expressing the Nirvana,the termination of conditioned existence.-Buddha
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

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raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 05:49:53 am »
Holden,
Thank you for the explanation. All three,Schopenhauer, Hinduism and Budhism are difficult subjects. My ignorance is vast so the only thing I know is we are in an age–an era of depravity that the Hindus call the Age of Kali where violating laws is unnecessary because all crimes are legal since we are in a corrupt civilization. In short, we can shout "Long live crime".

I also read that the Buddha believed that health, strength, beauty, culture, learning, and wealth were vanities and that in Hinduism, the Buddha appears as the ninth avatar of Vishnu. For the Hindus, sin exists because man is made with hunger.
There are crimes because of a design flaw. This design flaw makes man nourish himself by slaughtering other species.If humans could live on chemicals, there would be no crime and destruction. I am sure you already know this.

Supposedly the last words the Buddha said were: “Doubt everything. Find your own light!” and I read that  in 1963 in Saigon a Buddhist monk, Thich Quang Duc, in a lotus position at a crossroads, saturated with petrol, burned himself to death, protesting the regime of Ngo Dinh Diem. It was useless because the war there continued until 1975.

If we are robots, it would be strange to ask about human consciousness and intelligence. Maybe these are preconceived ideas that were implanted into us, human beings. So that we believe ourselves to be what we are not.
Why were we born? What is thinking for if we are to die?

All what we believe, think, feel, touch, see and hear, taste, is pointless if we are to age, get sick, and die. If we were robots, could we have souls? Absurd question for a machine. Absurd question for anyone implanted into a sack of rotten flesh and bones.

We are product, designed, Who knows?, there must be an engineer behind all this. If human beings are guinea pigs

The little I know is that the ancients believed that our thoughts were light. As light is everywhere so information is everywhere. Everything is psychic, they believed. They said that humans did not invent anything, they just picked things from this circuit of light. We do not invent, we remember. Abstract thoughts are implanted into human beings. If we did not have language, we would have to roar like a tiger if we were angry.


I think that it will be very difficult for human beings in a near future to believe in a spirit able to transcend beyond this matrix, this artificial intelligence. I think the scientists will have to prove that the sun and the stars are natural. Maybe they are simple bulbs coming from other entities in this universe. Like a virus that gets into our system,for this mycroscopic being our body is an entire universe.

So we could be in a virtual world and as science, technology and robotics increase human knowledge, it will be complicated for us to keep faith in a spirit and transcendence. If the programmers confined us into a human body, what could happen if we are confined into metal like the cyborgs? Maybe we are already cyborgs and we just don’t want to know.

I can imagine the programmers laughing at the sorrows of the human cyborgs. Because these cybors have been already programmed to ask these questions. If we are indeed a creation, our future has been programmed or predefined with a sense of utility.

Stay safe and ride safely too.


Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 07:39:47 am »
I will miss you Senor Raul and I will miss Herr Hentrich too.I hope that you that when he writes a post here you would convey my feelings to him. The problem is that my parents would not let be quit the job and my employers won't let me work in peace.Its a good thing too- it would be the true test as to whether I can walk through the door that Schopenhauer opened for me.

I feel so trapped.I feel like a drowning man.I am not a smart man just an emotional one. I feel dead inside already.I wanted to discuss Kant and Plato with you.I guess I may not be able to do that after all.But never mind.There is plenty of truthful matter on the board already.
Yes,I feel like a drawning man.You see I am not smart enough to learn about the true nature of life just by reading Schopenhauer.
This suffering ,I think I need it-I need it to wash away my sins.To make me disappear completely.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2018, 08:22:23 am »
Senor Raul
For you

La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2018, 08:52:23 am »
Holden,
I think you will be missed too. I think Hentrich already knows how you feel. You have been corresponding with him longer than me. I also think he understands what you are going through although he is living in a different situation and circumsntances.

I think you are not valuing yourself as you should. From all the post you have written you are a smart man. Otherwise you would have been writing about getting married, children, career future, house,etc. Of course you are emotional too. Fortunately you are not made of ice. It is not a consolation but you are not alone in thinking that you feel like a drowning man. We suffer from a cancer called life and all these distractions,i.e. jobs, marriage, money, travel, etc. are all antibiotics that we apply to ourselves. We may feel relief but the disease is still there.

Stay well.

Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 08:21:05 pm »
Senor something you might wanna watch:

La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

Holden

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Deeper Magic
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 04:18:18 am »
Senor,
Have you read Lion,Witch and Wardrobe?
I quote

You have a traitor there, Aslan," said the Witch. Of course everyone present knew that she meant Edmund...

"Well," said Aslan. "His offence was not against you."

"Have you forgotten the Deep Magic?" asked the Witch.

"Let us say I have forgotten it," answered Aslan gravely. "Tell us of this Deep Magic."

"Tell you?" said the Witch, her voice growing suddenly shriller. "Tell you what is written on that very Table of Stone which stands beside us? Tell you what is written in letters deep as a spear is long on the firestones on the Secret Hill? Tell you what is engraved on the sceptre of the Emperor-beyond-the-Sea? You at least know the Magic which the Emperor put into Narnia at the very beginning. You know that every traitor belongs to me as my lawful prey and that for every treachery I have a right to a kill...that human creature is mine. His life is forfeit to me. His blood is my property..."

"It is very true," said Aslan, "I do not deny it...Fall back, all of you," said Aslan, "and I will talk to the Witch alone..."


2nd quote:

The rising of the sun had made everything look so different - all colours and shadows were changed that for a moment they didn't see the important thing. Then they did. The Stone Table was broken into two pieces by a great crack that ran down it from end to end; and there was no Aslan...

"Who's done it?" cried Susan. "What does it mean? Is it magic?"

"Yes!" said a great voice behind their backs. "It is more magic." They looked round. There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.

"Oh, Aslan!" cried both the children, staring up at him, almost as much frightened as they were glad.

"Aren't you dead then, dear Aslan?" said Lucy.

"Not now," said Aslan...

"But what does it all mean?" asked Susan when they were somewhat calmer.

"It means," said Aslan, "that though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know: Her knowledge goes back only to the dawn of time. But if she could have looked a little further back, into the stillness and the darkness before Time dawned, she would have read there a different incantation. She would have known that when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitors stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards..."

"And now," said Aslan presently, "to business. I feel I am going to roar. You had better put your fingers in your ears."

And they did. And Aslan stood up and when he opened his mouth to roar his face became so terrible that they did not dare to look at it. And they saw all the trees in front of him bend before the blast of his roaring as grass bends in a meadow before the wind.

End Quote

The witch took the bait and killed Aslan.My employers are similar.
Keep well.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 04:21:27 am by Holden »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 05:10:07 am »
Holden,
Thank you for the links. I read The Burrow which is a long short story. It is worth reading many times. I remember these lines: "But anyone who suspects me of cowardice and my burrow of being a monument to my cowardice misunderstands me."

No, I have not read Lion, Witch and Wardrobe. Your reading is vast. In order to have your reading level, I would have to be born again and have an IQ of 1,400.

You wrote: "My colleagues want my blood-plain and simple. They would not relent so long as they have not slaked their thirst with my blood. Yes, a glassful or two of Holden’s blood. That is what they want."
Your vampire colleagues will suffer much pain after drinking your blood.

I can only quote these words I found by Vincent Van Gogh:

"I consciously chose the dog’s path through life, you see – a path on which it is better to be a sheep than a wolf; better to be slain than to slay; better to be Abel than Cain and better to be ruined than to do the ruining. I shall be poor; I shall be a painter."


Stay well, avoid dangerous roads when riding.

Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 05:01:20 am »
Senor Raul,
I think what fascinates Schopenhauer about Upanishads,Plato and Kant is that all three of them describe the material world as ‘fallen’.As a child I often heard the world being described as “The planet of death”.In the throes of sexual passion, man forgets that..and that leads to his downfall.

One of the popular deities over here is called “Brahma”.He is supposed to have seduced his own daughter ,as she was very pretty & thus gave birth to the world.

So, you see, the world is born in sin as per this piece of mythology. Born because of incest. This thought is right up Schopenhauer’s alley.
There is something very precarious about the way I get to experience the world. And then you have Plato.Now pretty often they say that all of Western philosophy is a footnote to Plato-meaning Plato is one of the greatest philosophers & what ,one might ask, was Plato’s key idea? Well,its called “Theory of Forms” & to put it in a nut shell we could say that your computer and my computer and Herr Hentrich’s computer-they are all copies of “One Form of Computer”.

Our computers,being built of ,plastic and silicon might break down,but the Form of Computer never breaks down for it is Pure Idea.

Keep well.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 01:55:05 pm »
Holden,
Thank you for your comments. I watched that scene,with the warriors. The father said at the end "I sent my child to death". Don´t parents do that every single second a baby is born?

Indeed this material world is fallen, a living slaughterhouse and yet men and women during sexual act completely forget that they bring an innocent to this prison. Sex and pleasure are the gates to our doom. Our body is a prison. I suppose I was lucky not to be born in a place where my father could have been a severe alcoholic and my mother a drug addict and subjected to beatings all the time. I even could have been sold to a couple for organ transplant.

As you said: "My heart is really injured-existence entails too much misery." This planet is full of misery.

Yes, a planet of death, a universe of death. These men, Plato, Kant and Schopenhauer were men of genius but I wonder if they saw what we are seeing now, they must be much more horrified to their bones.

Brahma certainly is a masterful being. To give birth to this world during incest is an act of violence. Damned be the gods.

Plato, the great philosopher who, according to what I read, condemned laughter, and said that the gods should not be represented laughing and that it was impossible to engage in commerce and be virtuous at the same time. He also said that pederasty, philosophy, and **** sports were the things that set the Greeks apart from the barbarians.

Stay well.
 

Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 02:38:55 pm »
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 04:06:34 pm »
Holden,
Thank you for the link. I will see it. When you can watch City of God, a Brazilian movie based on a life of a photographer who grew up in a slum or favela in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I saw it many years ago. You might like it.

I envy those who exited life when they were young. I heard that if one in a past life behaved badly, one will suffer in the next life, and old age will be bitter. I suppose that in my past life, if I had one, I must have been a really mean, brutal mmootthheer ffucckkeerr. So demons do not deserve pity, only punishment.


Stay safe, avoid the snake-cobras and ride carefully
and those who punctured your tyres, well, I hope their
cars break down in the middle of the city on their way to
their office.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 06:10:46 am »
Holden,
I watched the scene, Kingsman 2. Maybe Merlin should not have died that way.

Take me home Country roads

Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge
Mountains, Shenandoah River
Life is old there, older than the trees, younger
than the mountains, blowing like a breeze

Country roads, take me home to the place I belong
West Virginia, mountain mamma,take me
home, country roads

I suppose Merlin could go to the place where he belonged.

I have no home to go, except to become food for the worms.

Holden

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 07:23:35 am »
Senor while it is true that our bodies are work food(or in case of Hindus-firewood) I think I would like us to talk a bit about our essence too.Schopenhauer,as we have,seen together described the denial of the will.He did not preach but described.This is the significant point.He never expected that all his readers will rent them will-he was merely telling us what happens when one in fact denies the will.
Whenever I am affirming the will by way of anger or list by skin breaks out into big red rashes and when I sent the will I am calm like a swan in a pond.
My first and foremost priority is to deny the will.I cannot make it happen.It happens by way of grace.
Long after this body is gone the essence persists.Not Holden's or Senor Raul's or Herr Hentrich but the Essence.
Keep well.
La Tristesse Durera Toujours                                  (The Sadness Lasts Forever ...)
-van Gogh.

raul

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Re: Buddhism-Schopenhauer-Hinduism
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 02:21:11 pm »
Holden,
Thank you for your comments. Yes, the Essence persists. In my view, our essence is forcibly implanted into our hairy bodies.Prisoners in this human farm. Once I said that I would like to know what this world is, a human farm, a zoo, a biogenetic laboratory. All of these names go with this planet of death. Earth is evil. "Goodbye to this cruel world" are written in so many letters written by suicides. They are completely right since this world is the contrary to compassion, love, brotherhood, empathy,etc. Cruelty the opposite of love.

But most are in self-deception. That is the reason you, Hentrich and many others are mocked. You resist in throwing the towel. In simple words, those who adjust to this cruel and sick world are also cruel and sick.

There is nothing new under the sun. To be born in this world is a punishment. If there is past life, that means we did something really evil. Like being thrown into the jail after committing a crime. A complicated and complex issue. The thing is that humans long to be rescued from this nightmare.

I want to bellieve that there is some kind of divine spark in us, not polluted, clean. Just to come here to be used, manipulated, deceived, exploited and killed is just unendurable.

I also wanted to know why humans are here for. I thought that we were some kind of cyborgs. If 99.99 percent of women and men procreate, well that means there is a software in us that makes humans marry and breed. Our brains are also implanted genetically. I wanted to compose symphonies at the age of nine like Mozart but I am not a genius. At least I have the chip that makes me realize that I am in a prison under 24/7/365 surveillance.

Stay well.